Big Oil and citizenship

mac · Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:52 pm Post subject:

Agree on most points CB. I'd also read about the prior blow out. At some point continued discharge is inevitable, and what I've learned in digging around is that saturating some pyritic soils, whether disturbed or undisturbed, might slow or stop oxidation and reduce metal leaching.

I know you hate hearing about what California does well, but an obvious question occurred to me. How successful have previous efforts been, what have we learned from them, and how much improvement can we expect? I doubt that anyone knows.

Here in the Bay area we have a monitoring program, the Regional Monitoring Program, that is intended to answer that question. http://www.sfei.org/programs/sf-bay-regional-monitoring-program

A tool like this gives you some idea of the effectiveness and cost-effectiveness of what you are doing. Nobody learns from their mistakes unless they take them out and look at them.

coboardhead · Joined: 26 Oct 2009 Posts: 4303

Mac

There is an organization called the Mountain Studies Institue. I have worked as a consultant for them, and have also been a supporter. They have been monitoring water for awhile. In addition, the stake holders group is serious about seeing what they are accomplishing.

But, this is new science, and the vastness, and diversity, of the region cannot be overstated. Remember these sites are buried in snow, often in extremely hazardous avalanche prone drainages, for 9 months out of the year. So, identifying the offending source is very difficult.

And, our snow pack water content can vary dramticAlly by year and by basin depending on the direction of the storms. Groundwater can take a significant time to find its way out. Sort of like global warming data...it fluctuates on its own.

I am surprised you heard of the Silver Lake blowout. This a very high alpine lake that had a huge mine that was accessible by a tram that is miles long. It is a major hike to get to. off the beaten path. This was the first I had heard about the "possible" blowout. I may hike up there this weekend.

The blowout you may have heard about is recapped here.

https://www.hcn.org/articles/when-our-river-turned-orange-animas-river-spill

Jonathon is a little bit of a liberal, but does report pretty accurately...he was my neighbor in Silverton for awhile.

Sunday, I revisited Lake Emma...you can drive to it in a robust 4x4. Amazing site. And you are, literally, standing on a 2000 ft high mine below.

mac · Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:14 am Post subject:

CB--thanks, best coverage I've read yet. That is the blow-out I read about.

I think it will be interesting to watch the Congressional inquiry into this. I would vote for one if I was in Congress; despite my push-back on the right wing craziness, I'm not willing to give EPA a pass. Having overseen a slew of clean-ups, of much less significance, when I worked for the Port of Oakland, it seems to me that they did not have the level of skill needed in their project manager. (This is not unusual--most governmental agencies establish parameters for clean-ups, few oversee them. They rely on public-private partnerships, and the skill of contractors, which is usually the right way to go.)

The most fundamental need on any clean up is a health and safety plan. The potential for exposure of workers to toxic materials is always the starting point, but hydraulic dangers should also be part of that. We will eventually see both the health and safety plan, and the issues raised by the contractor. It will be interesting.

mac · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:40 pm Post subject:

I do remember the pious claims from the Exxon apologist about how transparent they must be, and how they must avoid paying off foreign powers. Usually known as bribery. They just don't want anyone to know what they actually do. They have been fighting regulations under the Dodd Frank Act--as well as fighting the Act and anything that the Administration does to reduce carbon emissions. They just lost in their battle with Oxfam.

mac · Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject:

Would good corporate citizens spill 11 million gallons of crude oil by tolerating an alcoholic skipper? Would that oil still be doing damage decades later? Would apologists try to focus on anything else?

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

EXTRA! EXTRA!
EPA caught covering up environmental impact of Animas River mine waste spill.
Pick your favorite news source and Read All About It!
I happened to catch it in a left wing McClatchey news release.

I hope some Republican ... ANY Republican ... turns out the lights on that obstreperous dinosaur of an agency.

coboardhead · Joined: 26 Oct 2009 Posts: 4303

mac · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject:

If Isobars had posted a link, he might have actually made an effort to communicate....

coboardhead · Joined: 26 Oct 2009 Posts: 4303

Mac

As you know, there is way more to this story than an edited video of the reaction of the EPA contractor in the field at the time of the blowout.

There is plenty of blame to go around. I find it very interesting to watch how those with special interests begin to spin the parts of the issue that meet their narrative.

mac · Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:10 am Post subject: re

CB--true that. I would actually like to see some press coverage of the hearings. I remember a Congress that actually held hearings and solved problems.