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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Holy Grail, Batman; is coboardhead finally seeing the light?
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="feuser"] nw30 wrote: | swchandler wrote: |
When you refer to Obama as our "liar in chief", or use other disdainful commentary about him, you're showing a lack of respect for him and the office he serves. quote]
No denying that, because he has to earn respect in order to receive it. |
You'd think that 65 million votes affirming his Presidency in 2012 would take care of that. |
Think about what you said, out of those 65 mil, how many of those votes came from people believing what BHO was saying during his campaign about Obamacare?
Then take it one step further, how many of those 65 mil would vote the same way again, now knowing the truth about Obamacare?
Then you can look at where his approval rate is going.
There is no denying that he has lost lots of respect, and I have lots of company.
To quote Joe Biden, "this is a big fucking deal". |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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46% approval rate. Tea party--
Quote: | The Tea Party's standing with Americans is at its lowest point since the movement took shape in 2010, according to a Pew Research Center poll released Wednesday.
The survey, conducted from Oct. 9-13, reports that nearly half (49 percent) of the public now view the Tea Party unfavorably, compared with 30 percent who view it favorably. Since February 2010, when Pew first began gauging opinion on the Tea Party, unfavorable views have nearly doubled, and the number of "very unfavorable" views has tripled. |
Congress?
So even if Michelle Bachman finds something useful to do like sell Tupperware, Obama is light years above your heroes. But NW? Single digits. Try reality. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009 Posts: 4303
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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NW
I wonder how many of the folks who feel misled on the ACA would have changed their vote if they had known that their insurance plans could be canceled? Many of us, that were paying attention, know that our individual plans were a rip off. Good for minor health issues and an occasional injury. But, heaven help us, should we develop a chronic health issue.
Elections turn into sound bites instead of indepth analysis. It is a sign of the times that we cannot have indepth policy analysis presented.
I am not surprised that folks are losing these crappy plans. What I am surprised at is how many folks were blindsided by it. Clearly, a failure to communicate these provisions of the plan. But, would it have changed the election? No...look at the pie chart in my earlier post. Not everyone of these folks vote, many are conservatives (small businessmen and professionals) and some of us even do the math on our own. We really are talking about a relatively small fraction of the electorate that is affected.
The fuss is larger now, cause nobody trusts that they will not also be affected. This has developed a larger life than it should. Bad politics. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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cbh, so you bought the "crappy plan" excuse, bummer, to do that, you'd have to accept that the policy holders had no idea of what kind of plan they have, which leads to the notion that you think that most policy holders are idiots!
This is exactly what pisses me off about the excuses that I am hearing, the general public is nothing but a bunch of hapless idiots that couldn't find their way out of a big paper bag.
Instead we get the ruling class, that thinks that they can do all of our thinking for us, and you accept it.
That's really sad, no trust in the basic intelligence of our people, the majority of which are against O'care. |
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feuser
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 1508
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="nw30"] feuser wrote: | nw30 wrote: | swchandler wrote: |
When you refer to Obama as our "liar in chief", or use other disdainful commentary about him, you're showing a lack of respect for him and the office he serves. quote]
No denying that, because he has to earn respect in order to receive it. |
You'd think that 65 million votes affirming his Presidency in 2012 would take care of that. |
Think about what you said, out of those 65 mil, how many of those votes came from people believing what BHO was saying during his campaign about Obamacare?
Then take it one step further, how many of those 65 mil would vote the same way again, now knowing the truth about Obamacare?
Then you can look at where his approval rate is going.
There is no denying that he has lost lots of respect, and I have lots of company.
To quote Joe Biden, "this is a big fucking deal". |
We're talking about respect for the man and his office here. You've got to start with that in order to make your case. Everything else is just ranting.
That aside, I think the promise "you can keep your insurance" wasn't his to make in the first place. Insurance companies dropped people's plans if they were non-compliant or not feasible to continue under the new conditions. I guess people have a right to be upset, but I am not sure at whom.
After all - if an existing plan could not be grandfathered, it was more than likely because people were paying into plans without having a reasonable expectation to actually be covered. You heard about policies being raised several hundred percent "because of Obama"? You know what the benefit of a so-called $200/year insurance policy is - and who actually gets to foot the bill left on the table when these frugal insurance shoppers go to the ER?
Yes, I think the government can protect the tax payer from having to cough up the difference. I am paying 20+ k a year and I can't continue subsidizing other people's health care on top of that. I also don't want to live in a country where you're left bleeding on the street or be bankrupted by medical bills. Take your pick. Somalia is just a few thousand miles to the east, if you want to check it out. _________________ florian - ny22
http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/ |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009 Posts: 4303
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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NW
I "bought" no such argument.
I have personally witnessed several medical bankruptcies caused when people thought they had insurance and had large claims denied for a number of reasons or had policies not renewed.
You can continue to live in denial about how great the previous system was for us that do not have access to group plans or you can do a little real research for once. I had NO options but to accept insurance that could be cancelled at any anniversary date the insurer chose. I have had this type of insurance for over twenty years and nev filed a claim yet have bee cancelled twice before this time over "policy changes".
Medical costs have been increasing at double the cost of inflation. 50 percent of costs are borne by the governments. It is obvious to anyone who can do rudimentary math that this is unsustainable. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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NW30, let me share a bit of reality for you. So many on the right are against Social Security, and as we all know, President Bush tried unsuccessfully to privatize it. Yet, there are still those today on the right that say that folks are being cheated by a government Ponzi scheme instead of having an opportunity to invest their money in a more private and lucrative way. Of course, the fact that folks can already invest significantly in IRAs, 401K and 403B plans is rarely discussed during a Social Security bashing.
Yet, when it comes down to it, are the majority of Americans sensibly saving and investing in their future? The real answer is no. The truth is that better than 90% of Americans depend on Social Security for the majority of their income in retirement. Seemingly, there are too many other things to spend your money on during one's career.
Are most Americans really smart and on top the their game? When it comes to planning for a comfortable retirement, it would appear that they aren't. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:17 am Post subject: |
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feuser wrote: | I also don't want to live in a country where you're left bleeding on the street or be bankrupted by medical bills. Take your pick. Somalia is just a few thousand miles to the east, if you want to check it out. |
Yikes, you live in a state of serious fear, if that's what you really believe, I'm glad I don't live in your mind.
And with that, me, or anybody else is supposed to take you seriously?
Sorry, Homey don't play dat. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:24 am Post subject: |
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cbh, I know that there are problems with the system before Obamacare, I never said anything in that direction, sure there have been some problems which is why I'm in favor of some kind of health insurance reform. But I'm not in favor of the entire system of healthcare to be reformed, that's just being greedy for power when you want to reform the entire system, when only a portion of it needs to be altered. |
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