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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2665

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:

The number of government employees, relative to population, has been, nearly unchanged since President Reagan. In fact, at the end of Obama's first term a lower ratio was measured than at the end of any of the President's terms since, and including, Reagan

Mikey, Mr. B, NW, Techno, Mr. G, Matty... take notice.

Many on the far right say that Obama is growing government. In stark contrast, this strongly suggests that Obama has made the US government smaller, on a proportional basis, than at any time in recent history.

How do we justify these conflicting claims?
.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB,
Do you have statistics on that 46%? Not a challenge more a question of curiosity. In my visits to the US it sure seems to be quite different demographically than Canada.
I wish the same was true here on a provincial level. Our liberal Ontario government has managed to almost triple the civil servant burden on tax payers.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1945

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
CB,
Do you have statistics on that 46%? Not a challenge more a question of curiosity. In my visits to the US it sure seems to be quite different demographically than Canada.
I wish the same was true here on a provincial level. Our liberal Ontario government has managed to almost triple the civil servant burden on tax payers.


Reinerehlers

We had this discussion about a year ago during the last election cycle. Many of these claims were bantered about then. Here is a fact check discussion on welfare.

http://www.factcheck.org/tag/

The burden of government employees has been increasing, but a large part has to do with increases in health insurance and pension costs. But, the numbers of employees is flat.

Update...oops link is not working ..ipad glitch? I will have to get back to you when I am on a real computer.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14158

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama insists that words have meaning. His words this morning state that only "thousands" out of the 20,000,000 people who visited the Ocare website the past three weeks have actually enrolled.

That's not even 0.0005%, folks.
Less than zero point zero zero zero five percent.
Not even 1/20th of one percent.
i.e., SQUAT ... not even a trickle.
Even the much fuzzier, very muddled and ill-defined wags ranging up to 50,000 is only one fourth of one percent.

Ted Cruz wasted a pair of Depends. This Hinderburg is nothing but hot air.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1697
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you hear him say "We've got to make it easy for the chickens to find their feed"?

He is soooooo presidential!

_________________
I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="coboardhead"]
reinerehlers wrote:

The burden of government employees has been increasing, but a large part has to do with increases in health insurance and pension costs. But, the numbers of employees is flat.

I can't speak for there but here it's an evergrowing pool of government employees with grossly inflated incomes (base upon their non union / gov. counterparts), benefits, pensions. AKA sunshine blown up butt. We can thank their thug mob AKA unions. It seems odd to me that those jobs paid for from our taxes are so out of line with those who actually pay the taxes. This doesn't even touch on the "work mentality" and incompetance that is so dominant in that environment. They give a new meaning to lack of service or accountability from my business dealings with them.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4115

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Did you hear him say "We've got to make it easy for the chickens to find their feed"?

He is soooooo presidential!


If he indeed said that, this is an enlightening metaphor. I wonder if he really thinks that the useful idiots are really idiots.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3552
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, and NW...I changed my mind, I love Ted Cruz. The GOVT shutdown has slowed the economy (.6%GDP hit), created a bond rally, and pushed Tapering off til June. All this has resulted in a NAZ rally reminding me of 1999, and S&P 1744....thanks Tea Baggers!!!!!
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4115

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know it Boggs! I'm enjoying the Cruz rally in RE. Please let us know when to pile into TBT and GLD. I'm projecting a crash worse than 09 in Obama's last year in office.

The Oligarchs and crony capitalists are also enjoying falling wages combined with the ability to get healthcare off of their books.

BTW, why are Reits crashing, but ordinary Joe's real estate booming? This is troubling.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5205

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me provide you Cruzinistas with a few facts about cost issues:


Quote:
Healthcare costs decrease over time when low-income uninsured are provided coverage

Study co-authored by UCI’s David Neumark indicates results of newly enacted reforms

— Irvine, Calif., February 09, 2012 —

Enrollment of uninsured patients in a program with benefits comparable to those offered under the Affordable Care Act of 2010 resulted in significant healthcare cost savings, a new study finds. Published in the February issue of Health Affairs, the research sheds light on the potential outcomes of newly enacted healthcare reforms.

“In a case study involving low-income people enrolled in a community-based health insurance program, we found that use of primary care increased but use of emergency services fell, and – over time – total healthcare costs declined,” said study co-author David Neumark, UC Irvine Chancellor’s Professor of economics and director of UCI’s Center for Economics & Public Policy study.

Working with researchers from the Virginia Commonwealth University Health System, Neumark tracked the emergency room, inpatient, outpatient and primary-care service utilization of about 26,000 previously uninsured Richmond residents between 2000 and 2007 whose household incomes fell 200 percent below the federal poverty level. Qualified enrollees were granted health insurance and assigned a primary-care provider for one year. They were required to proactively re-enroll for subsequent annual coverage.

The demographics of these participants paralleled those of the population that will be affected by changes under the Affordable Care Act of 2010, Neumark said. The legislation is set to extend Medicaid benefits to about 16 million uninsured, low-income adults and children by the end of 2014.

The study found that primary-care visits for patients who enrolled continuously over three years rose from 1.06 in year one to 1.60 annually, while emergency-room visits fell from 1.02 in year one to 0.74 by year three. Costs per visit for both inpatients and outpatients also decreased, as did the length of inpatient stays. On average, total healthcare costs per enrollee per year for this subset were cut nearly in half – from $8,899 in year one to $4,569 in year three. Overall costs per enrollee per year for all participants with at least one year of enrollment declined from $7,604 to $4,726.

“A lot of the debate about healthcare reform surrounds the issue of whether we’re setting up something that’s going to cost us more by increasing use of medical services or something that will cut costs through more appropriate and timely use of medical services,” Neumark said. “Our research shows that, over time, costs can be reduced through increased use of primary care and reductions in emergency-department visits and hospital admissions, but it may take several years of coverage for substantive savings to occur.”

Co-authors of the study include Cathy Bradley, professor and chair of healthcare policy & research at Virginia Commonwealth University; Sabina Gandhi, who earned a doctorate in economics at UCI and is now a VCU assistant research professor; Sheryl Garland, vice president of health policy and community relations at the VCU Health System; and Dr. Sheldon Retchin, VCU professor of internal medicine, gerontology and health administration and CEO of the VCU Health System.


Of course I love the high level arguments of RR, where he doesn't tip his hand about his opinion or use insults:


Quote:
I can't speak for there but here it's an evergrowing pool of government employees with grossly inflated incomes (base upon their non union / gov. counterparts), benefits, pensions. AKA sunshine blown up butt. We can thank their thug mob AKA unions. It seems odd to me that those jobs paid for from our taxes are so out of line with those who actually pay the taxes. This doesn't even touch on the "work mentality" and incompetance that is so dominant in that environment. They give a new meaning to lack of service or accountability from my business dealings with them.


I don't know RR, do you think that competence involves the ability to spell? Hatred--of Obama, unions, and liberals--is just so becoming.
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