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Catholic Church and sex
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:13 pm    Post subject: Catholic Church and sex Reply with quote

Birth control and abortion are mortal sins. Priests abusing children? Not so much. But I had not read before about the payoffs.

Quote:
By
Shawn Boburg,
Robert O'Harrow Jr. and
Chico Harlan
Dec. 26, 2019 at 7:44 p.m. PST
Former cardinal Theodore McCarrick gave hundreds of thousands of dollars in church money to powerful Catholic clerics over nearly two decades, according to financial records obtained by The Washington Post, while the Vatican failed to act on claims he had sexually harassed young men.

Starting in 2001, McCarrick sent checks totaling more than $600,000 to clerics in Rome and elsewhere, including Vatican bureaucrats, papal advisers and two popes, according to church ledgers and former church officials.

Several of the more than 100 recipients were directly involved in assessing misconduct claims against McCarrick, documents and interviews show. It was not until 2018 that McCarrick was removed from public ministry amid allegations of misconduct decades earlier with a 16-year-old altar boy, and this year he became the first cardinal known to be defrocked for sexual abuse.

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The checks were drawn from a little-known account at the Archdiocese of Washington, where McCarrick began serving as archbishop in 2001. The “Archbishop’s Special Fund” enabled him to raise money from wealthy Catholic donors and to spend it as he chose, with little oversight, according to the former officials.

McCarrick sent Pope John Paul II $90,000 from 2001 to 2005. Pope Benedict XVI received $291,000, most of it a single check for $250,000 in May 2005, a month after he was elevated to succeed the late John Paul.

Representatives of the former popes declined to comment or said they had no information about those specific checks. A former personal secretary to John Paul said donations to the pope were forwarded to the secretary of state, the second most powerful post at the Vatican. Experts cautioned that such gifts may also have been directed to papal charities.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catholic conservatives have been horrified about Pope Francis. I guess the last guy was their hero. From the NYT, and widely reported.

Quote:
Pope John Paul II ignored warnings that a prominent American archbishop, Theodore McCarrick, had sexually abused young men, according to a Vatican report. (In Opinion, Elizabeth Bruenig writes that the report implicates “the highest echelons of the church.”)
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1634

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Payouts to keep sexual exploitations quiet is nothing new just ask DJT!
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isobans



Joined: 08 Aug 2010
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, Jesus Christ, mac ... I haven't even looked at your no-doubt-stupid post, but the title alone reinforces our conclusion made years ago that forums serve only one purpose for you: stir up the porta potty, add still more shit to it, and pour it into the parking lot to see how much trouble and hatred you can generate among a group who should be friends.

-iso 2020
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Catholic conservatives have been horrified about Pope Francis. I guess the last guy was their hero. From the NYT, and widely reported.

Quote:
Pope John Paul II ignored warnings that a prominent American archbishop, Theodore McCarrick, had sexually abused young men, according to a Vatican report. (In Opinion, Elizabeth Bruenig writes that the report implicates “the highest echelons of the church.”)


I guess the Catholic liberals feel the same way:

Quote:
U.S. Catholics are split down the middle politically. Around half of Catholic registered voters (48%) describe themselves as Republicans or say they lean toward the Republican Party, while roughly the same share (47%) identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, according to Pew Research Center polls in 2018 and 2019.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
AP VoteCast showed 50% of Catholics backing Trump and 49% favoring Biden, reflecting the faith's longstanding role as a closely contested vote in presidential elections — particularly in Rust Belt battleground states such as Michigan and Wisconsin. Trump won both of those states by less than 1 percentage point in 2016, but Biden prevailed in both this year. The survey of more than 110,000 voters nationwide was conducted for The Associated Press by NORC at the University of Chicago.



Of course the point went right over Techno's head. I have no concern about Catholics per se, I was raised one and my parents were good and devout Catholics. The issue is that the hierarchy of the church tolerated and enabled abuse of children, and covered it up. Thereby losing their moral voice.

Fifty some years ago when I was first considering marriage and talking to priests about it, it became clear to me that the church does not have a healthy attitude about sex. Next question.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Quote:
AP VoteCast showed 50% of Catholics backing Trump and 49% favoring Biden, reflecting the faith's longstanding role as a closely contested vote in presidential elections — particularly in Rust Belt battleground states such as Michigan and Wisconsin. Trump won both of those states by less than 1 percentage point in 2016, but Biden prevailed in both this year. The survey of more than 110,000 voters nationwide was conducted for The Associated Press by NORC at the University of Chicago.



Of course the point went right over Techno's head. I have no concern about Catholics per se, I was raised one and my parents were good and devout Catholics. The issue is that the hierarchy of the church tolerated and enabled abuse of children, and covered it up. Thereby losing their moral voice.

Fifty some years ago when I was first considering marriage and talking to priests about it, it became clear to me that the church does not have a healthy attitude about sex. Next question.


Poor attempt at a dodge. Why did you say Catholic conservatives have been horrified, and not just Catholics?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess Techno doesn’t follow the news. Pope Francis is far more liberal than his predecessor, is popular with 3/4 of Americans, and even more popular in South America. He has returned to Christ’s themes of providing for the poor and for the dispossessed. He has been attacked by conservatives on this forum.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/03/three-quarters-of-u-s-catholics-view-pope-francis-favorably-though-partisan-differences-persist/
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1685

PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice.
https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/in-depth/news/2020/12/03/st-norbert-abbey-paid-former-student-who-reported-priest-sex-abuse/6186892002/
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't necessarily think that abuse is more common in any particular religion. But what is criminal is how systematically the Catholic Church covered it up. What is offensive is how some hypocritical Catholics parade their opposition to abortion as a way to claim ethical superiority.

Quote:
By
Rick Noack
and
Chico Harlan

Today at 11:10 a.m. EDT



PARIS — A major report released Tuesday said French Catholic clerics had abused more than 200,000 minors over the past 70 years, a systemic trauma that the inquiry's leader described as deep and "cruel."

The report’s findings could trigger a public reckoning in a country where church officials long stalled efforts to investigate complicity. The findings also add to the picture of country-by-country trauma within a religion that has tended to find abuse on a stunning scale anywhere it has looked.

The Vatican said in a statement that Pope Francis had been informed of the report during a recent visit by French bishops. “His thoughts turn first to the victims, with immense sorrow for their injuries and gratitude for their courage to speak out,” the statement said, adding that Francis hopes the French church can follow a path of “redemption” after becoming aware of this “appalling reality.”


The Independent Commission on Sexual Abuse in the Church, set up more than two years ago with the approval of French church officials, examined decades of accusations in much the manner of other landmark reports — whether from Ireland, Germany, Poland, Australia or the United States.

Commission leader Jean-Marc Sauvé said his team had identified only a small percentage of victims, but academic research and other sources meant that the real number is likely around 216,000, or even around 330,000 if one includes sexual abuse by lay members. The vast majority of the victims were male, according to the report. The authors cautioned that the margin of error could be several tens of thousands.

The numbers, said Sauvé, are “overwhelming and cannot remain without consequences.”

“The church failed to see, it failed to hear, and failed to pick up on the weak signals,” he said. “It failed to take the rigorous measures that were needed.”

Catholic clergy in France abused more than 10,000 child victims, independent commission estimates

Several cases have been forwarded to law enforcement officials, or — in cases where the window of prosecution had passed — to church officials. Overall, the report estimates the number of perpetrators to be at least around 3,000, with most of them being priests or clerics.


The commission’s conclusions are partially based on more than 6,000 testimonies, including from victims and witnesses.

“You’re coming back from hell,” victims’ representative François Devaux told commission members during a presentation of the report on Tuesday.

Then, appearing to address church representatives, he said: “You have to pay for all those crimes.”

“You are a disgrace to our humanity,” he added.

Earlier this year, commission leader Sauvé put the possible number of child victims at more than 10,000, but cautioned at the time that the estimate could rise.

“The big question for us is: How many victims came forward? Is it 25 percent? Ten percent, 5 percent or less?” Sauvé told journalists at the time. “Their stories are a true memorial of pain. Entire lives have been devastated,” he said.


Across the church, decades of abuse revelations — about the crimes of both parish priests and high-ranking cardinals — have gradually eroded trust in the religion while causing an ongoing crisis for the Vatican and the pope.

As part of dealing with the scourge, Francis has written letters of apology, gathered bishops at the Vatican, and drawn up new rules for responding to accusations. But the church has also, at times, been left scrambling — as the consequences of the abuse crisis ripple beyond the Vatican’s control.
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