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I want a new sail! (1 year windsurfing experience)
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before buying any sail I'd strongly recommend you considering what your future quiver will look like, so you don't end up collecting too many and too overlapping each other sails. I'll give you my quiver as an example since we are same hight I'm a bit heavier 170lb and I also sail on the Great Lakes. I use 9.0; 7.4; 5.8 and 5.0 m sails on an approximately 80; 70 and 60 cm wide boards respectively for 10 to 30+ mph winds. Todays sails have a great tunabity so dont be afraid to go 1.5 and more between the big sizes. Ofcourse your quiver may vary for all kins of reasons but this is good starting point nonetheless. I hope other people provide examples too and here is a helpfull tool - the size calculator of J. Douglas at your disposal:
http://videojibe.com/featured/windsurfing-sail-size-calculator/
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good point on a 'plan' your quiver.

I use this method, find the size sail you use or intend to use the most, then build the others around it. The size board you have will limit the smaller sails, until you purchase a smaller board, you will.

in larger sizes most will opt for a meter apart, so 6.5---7.5---8.5, the newer sails will have the range to cover that spread

smaller are bunched closer together, with sailors using either .5m or as some sails are made in 5.2 5.7m and on variations , this is where the planning "may" help, as you don't really want a 6.5 & 6.2 ( unless you are hopelessly addicted)

this sail will NOT perform well on your mast
for sale: private message, PM me if interested

Ezzy Cheetah 2012 8.5m freeride , no cams

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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following up with the original poster... I just read through all the info again. And this is all really good advice for you.
Thanks for your additional answers. My guess that you lived somewhere warm, was because of ALL the great skills you'd attained in just 1 year. But yes, I see how you did it... You got addicted and sailed many, several hours every week !!
It's all about "hours" and "time on the water"... and you got at least a years worth (for the average novice) in just 1 long summer Smile
And... my guess that you weren't a big heavy guy was correct. That all around Go board that you have, and the small shortboard... will be all that you need for a long time... and will work well for your lighter weight.
Back to your question about sails -
As a progressing novice, don't worry "too much" about the model name printed on the sail. You mentioned a couple times that you're not windsurfing in Surf... just choppy water... yet you have a "Wave sail".
In the 40 years of popular windsurfing history, most of the people in the world, have windsurfed in conditions just like you.
And the water we windsurf in is always some degree of "choppy" because that's how it gets, due to the wind we're looking for.
That 6.2 wave sail you have has been a perfect starter sail for you. In fact, at your light weight, I think it's kinda on the big side for a novice. Maybe you had lessons with smaller sails... but then, this is what you bought. Anyway, it's great sail for you to have... and unless you get crazy into this sport, you can probably always keep and use it.
Next - The progression you're following is totally appropriate and normal. As you said, your 6.2 is easy handling and fun and you have learned a ton in a short time. But now you have some basic skills... and you want to go faster in the typical wind, where you live. (We've ALL been there and done that Smile
So you're asking about a 7.2 Hellcat as a next sail. Guys here have suggested looking at many other sails in similar sizes, which is fine. But maybe you have "this 7.2" you're considering close by. Maybe it's easy if a near-by shop or friend is selling it. Or, you can get a "deal" on it.
Or, maybe you're just reading the internet and looking at on-line sails to buy. And if that's the case, then yes, there are tons of decent choices for you.
But specifically on this 7.2 Hellcat you asked about... Yes, if it's easy for you, I'd say it makes great sense. Others have said you can go with "more spread" between sails in bigger sizes, which is true. But you're a lighter weight aspiring novice (not a big experienced expert) just trying to learn and have fun. And "you will notice" much more power (speed) from a 7.2 Hellcat compared to a 6.2 wave sail in 10-15 knots. And BONUS, you already have a decent mast for it. If you buy a bigger sail, you likely will have to buy another mast. So I'd say, if it's easy, go for it.
Some day, if you want to go even faster in light winds... you could then buy something around 8.5 - 9.0M. And that's probably the biggest, that a guy your size will use (unless you go too crazy, like some of us).
More likely, is that you'll look for another "wave sail" or "bump n' jump" sail smaller than your 6.2 - like something in the 5.2 to 5.7 range. And that will work well with your shortboard for the WINDY days.
Very experienced guys have said to consider what your eventual sail quiver might be, and to plan for that. I'd say sure, that's also good advice. But when you're new, you don't know what that is. You still have a lot to learn about your local winds... and your skills are going to improve... and how much are you ultimately going to be windsurfing.
So I'd say, keep it simple. This sport is already too compicated, and it doesn't have to be, just to have fun.
And besides... at your weight, sailing location, and skill level... what we're talking about, might end up to be the perfect quiver for you anyway.
Sails like a 9.0 - 7.2 - 6.2 - 5.7 - 5.2 - that would be a sweet set-up, and would work with the boards you already have and your light weight. And would cover you in winds from 1 to 30 !!
Sorry for the novel... keep up the great job... and it's cool to have another new addicted windsurfer... Greg Smile
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kmf



Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be aware that larger sails require larger booms. Before you purchase a larger sail make sure that it will fit the boom, (and mast), that you already have, or you will find yourself purchasing another expensive piece of equipment. Some careful planning is advisable to avoid the money pit that sailboarding can become. When I purchased a 7.3, my main focus was to purchase the biggest sail that my present boom would allow. This kept the cost low. This may not be possible for your situation, depending which boom you already have. If you have to purchase another boom try to get one that will rig both or several sail sizes that you will ultimately use.

KMF
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:

Sails like a 9.0 - 7.2 - 6.2 - 5.7 - 5.2 - that would be a sweet set-up, and would work with the boards you already have and your light weight. And would cover you in winds from 1 to 30 !!

A good example for NOT optimal quiver. The gap between 9.0 and 7.2 is way too big and between 6.2 and 5.7 too small. IMO it should look like that: 8.5; 7.2; 6.0; 5.2 - see one sail less!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14190

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mostly good advice, especially the "plan your quiver" part, but ... what's that Hellcat going to cost? A novice/intermediate (heck, most experts) doesn't get any more benefit from this year's sail than from a good used sail for hundreds fewer dollars. In addition, one brand's 7.0 has the size and power of the next brand's 7.5 or 6.5; mixing brands and models is better left up to hands-on comparisons, at least overlaying two candidates, than catalog or magazine shopping by square meters or advertisement PR. A 6.2/7.2 gap is pretty small unless that 6.2 is small and the 7.2 is oversized. At least you're considering staying with one brand, which should make the square meters meaningful, but comparing wave sails to racy sails presents a similar apples and oranges issue; which is faster ... a sports car or a musclecar? Answer: it depends.

Realize, too, that speed for sub-experts comes far more from skill and gross hull characteristics than from the sail. A fast SAILOR on a 10-yo wave sail and a wave board can often blow the doors off a novice/intermediate on a freerace sail and a slalom board. You can't readily buy obvious speed at your stage .... certainly not 500 dollars' worth.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the theory behind the ultimate quiver size range, will continue, as the right answer is yet to be found.

First you get my vote, if you want a new sail then friggen well get one.

so some of you can have a chuckle here is my quiver

2.9 3.2 3.7 4.0 4.5 4.7 4.7 5.0 5.2 5.7 6.0 6.3 6.5 7.5 7.5 8.5

never said minimalist quiver

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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adywind wrote:
gregnw44 wrote:

Sails like a 9.0 - 7.2 - 6.2 - 5.7 - 5.2 - that would be a sweet set-up, and would work with the boards you already have and your light weight. And would cover you in winds from 1 to 30 !!

A good example for NOT optimal quiver. The gap between 9.0 and 7.2 is way too big and between 6.2 and 5.7 too small. IMO it should look like that: 8.5; 7.2; 6.0; 5.2 - see one sail less!


Well... yes, and no... in my opinion.
I agree with you, and your quiver sugestion. It reduces sail size, by % instead of simple 1M or 1/2M sizes. And that's "the way my quiver is" as well. The spacing is by % drop. And yes, my sails are mostly the same brand, and the few that aren't have been laid out carefully on top of each other to insure they look "right" to me. And that works for me!!

But for the original poster... he already has a good 6.2 that he likes and might as well keep. So, I was working off his 6.2. And you suggested he change that, for a 6.0
Also in my too "long post" I theorized that he might some day buy an even bigger sail than the 7.2 he's looking at. And if so, "I tossed out" that something in the 8.5 to 9.0 would be the biggest sail, a guy his size would probably ever need. He will probbaly never do that... but anyway.. yes, when I laid out a fantasy quiver I said 9.0 My apologies, cause I should've said 8.7 Smile
And I agree with you 6.2 to 5.7 is closer than need be. Just lazy on my part as those are common sizes along with 5.2's Anyway, I should've said from 6.2 down to 5.4 Smile
So, my revised fantasy quiver for our up-coming windsurfing star is
8.7 - 7.2 - 6.2 - 5.4 Four sails with a nice descending % drop in size.
Just about the same spacing as your suggestion... but this one uses a good sail he already likes and owns.
But anyway, BOTH are very nice quiver suggestions.
Greg Smile

PS - In reality, droping from a 9M to a 7.2 would not be WAY TOO much. If he's going from sailing around subplaning in the lightest wind, to planing conditions. With a bit more skill, he would do THAT just fine.
I go from an 11M to an 8.2 and it's perfect. There's plenty of over-lap and I never feel that I NEED something in between. And yes, they're both similar styled sails, from a similar design era. And they work very well with my boards and the wind I'm in.
And although I do some "fun racing"... I'm not a pro at it and I'm not sponsored. If I was, or was really serious... I'd get another sail in the middle. But, for covering a big range with "less gear" this works for me Smile
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14190

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:
Also in my too "long post"

And I agree with you 6.2 to 5.7 is closer than need be.

dropping from a 9M to a 7.2 would not be WAY TOO much ... I go from an 11M to an 8.2 and it's perfect. There's plenty of over-lap

"Too long" is a common complaint of poor or lazy readers and/or controlling personalities uninterested in new facts or opinions, which shouldn't apply to newbies or folks requesting information about a topic this complex. Don't sweat it; most sub-experts need more, not less, information. Proof? They usually request more, not less, information.

I've owned 6.2s, 5.7s, and 5.2s for decades. I sometimes go a whole season without even using the 5.7. Who gets wind so steady that only one size works? I keep the 5.7s primarily because it is the biggest sail that works great with my bread and butter 80L sinkers, and in case I bust my 5.2 or 6.2. The 6.7 to 5.2 gap or the 6.2 to 4.7 gap work just fine for me most days.

East coast Sailworks gnome ... er, guru ... Roger Jackson posted last century (thus my numbers are SWAGs) that his bump from something like 7.5 to something like 8.5 subtracted something like one gnot ( Wink ) from his planing threshold. That's "gnot" much return for an investment of $750 to $1500 (sail, plus maybe mast and boom).

FWIW, I bracket my quivers by the biggest sail I'm willing to throw around, the smallest sail I enjoy using, and useful spacing between those two as implied by Greg.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1254
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Gorge quiver 6.7, 5.5, 4.7, 4.2, 3.7, 3.2
My Utah quiver 9.5, 6.5, 5.5, 4.7, 4.2, 3.7

I think the OP should go 7.7, 6.2 myself.

-Craig
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