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tuning 5.6 sail for max power to replace 7.5 in light wind
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2431

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your Sailworks is the old 3 cam, semi wide sleeve slalom sail.....
Set downhaul so the very tip of the sail just starts to twist off, but not at the top batten.
Set outhaul on a wide boom, NOT like the new carbon or Chinook booms, but the older or just plain wider booms, so the draft is full.
Set outhaul lines on the higher of the two clew grommets. The higher settings keep the sail from twisting, so it's all power.
Boom height only matters to final tune the sail, after you're already up and planing. The higher boom can help unweight your feet, shortening planing surface. And it helps a bit to unload weight of your feet
3 cam has the most power...early planing, possible.
You have now made a short windrange, 5.6 that planes up like a 6.5.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14484

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
The higher boom can help unweight your feet, shortening planing surface. And it helps a bit to unload weight of your feet

Any weight taken off our feet has to go somewhere. Unless the sail provides vertical aerodynamic lift independent of its pivoting action about the mast step, that "somewhere" is onto the mast step. Wouldn't that tend to lower the nose and lengthen the planing surface?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14484

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:
PS - I know there are some sails that have 2 clews a few inches apart, giving you a choice where to attach the outhaul. And I understand the theory of how this might increase/decrease power a bit. Frankly, I don't think I'd ever notice that however... and doubt "most people" would (some would, I'm sure. but many wouldn't).

My two clew grommets behave very differently, by design. It's not the 3" difference in geometry that matters; it's the difference in the load distribution within the structure of the sail. At least in my Northwaves, the higher clew grommet shifts the load much higher in the sail, raising the COE and changing the sail's behavior quite noticeably. That has pros and cons, and thus works better or worse depending on the sailor's goals, sailing style, board, and venue.
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
zirtaeb wrote:
The higher boom can help unweight your feet, shortening planing surface. And it helps a bit to unload weight of your feet

Any weight taken off our feet has to go somewhere. Unless the sail provides vertical aerodynamic lift independent of its pivoting action about the mast step, that "somewhere" is onto the mast step. Wouldn't that tend to lower the nose and lengthen the planing surface?

In reality it lifts you and the front of the board. You can get yourself catapulted easily if you overdue it and get surprised by a strong gust. It may also make your front foot feel light at speed and the board nose lifting badly. You can compensate to some extent by moving the mast foot forward a bit.
It helps early planing a lot!
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: tuning 5.6 sail for max power to replace 7.5 in light wind Reply with quote

[quote="cgoudie1"]trying to get 7.5 power out of a 5.6 is not possible, you
might get 6.5 power out of
a Sailworks Hucker 5.6, if you really tuned it to be on the edge
of it's control range. Plus Northwaves and Sailworks sails were
designed for pretty broad tuning., not typical of a slalom sail
(which is designed more for the range towards the upper end of the wind
spectrum).

.02

-Craig


Yes, I should have thought before that it is unrealistic to expect the power of a 7.5 or an 8.5 from a 5.6, no matter how detuned it is.
You say that Sailworks sails are designed for a broad wind range but slalom sails arenít, as they are designed for the top of the wind range only. Mine is a Sailworks, but I donít know where it fits: slalom sail ( narrow range) or broad range?
Iíll give you the details. It is a few years old, probably from 2006. I just bought it 2nd hand because of the price and the seemingly good condition. It bears the description ď Sailworks Race 5.6 m2, curve MCS 3-Flex top MCS 22-27. It has 5 cams. My mast is a 460 constant curve carbon mast. I know, it does not match the flextop sail and ideally I should also use a 430 mast, but I am not overly fussy about this mismatch , since I am not a performance buff..
Is it for top-of-the Ėwindrange only or a broad range? What is the max I can get out of it in terms of power?

Thanks

Ittiandro
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paulf.



Joined: 21 Mar 1996
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that sail is designed for 35 knots of wind on an 80l very fast slalom board. do yourself a favor and get a nice couple of no cam freeride sails and you will progress much more rapidly.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"" It is a few years old, probably from 2006. I just bought it 2nd hand because of the price and the seemingly good condition. It bears the description ď Sailworks Race 5.6 m2, curve MCS 3-Flex top MCS 22-27. It has 5 cams. ""

I think your sail is more than a few years old. A 5-cam 5.6 M sounded like a 90's sail to me. But cause you thought it was from '06... I've been looking at Sailworks past years sail specs (they have them listed back to 2000). And there are no small race sails with 5 cam since 2000 (at least that I can see with a quick look). They're mostly 3 cam, and they rarely go that small size anymore.

But - that's just info you.
Anyway... for the present situation... can you use that sail? Answer - Sure you can. It's more trouble than a person of your experience needs. But, you got it cheap... you'll figure out to rig it. And with practice it will only take 1-2 min more than a non-cam sail.
Rig it like you've been saying (and others have said) and you'll be fine.

Oh - and your question about how much power will it have?
The answer is, What difference does that make? Those answers are all just numbers from people around the country that don't know you. And why do you care? Because all that matters is, will it get you going in the typical wind at your beach. If you want more power later, when you have good skills... get a bigger sail.
Or not.
Meaning, if you go as fast as you want. Or, if you're going as fast as others on 5.2 or 6.2 you'll be happy. Or if not, get a bigger sail Smile
You'll be ok if you have patience in rigging. Oh yeah, another disadvantage to that sail for a newer sailor... is it'll be way harder to waterstart than an RAF sail.
Lots to learn in our cool sport !!
Greg Smile
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paulf. wrote:
that sail is designed for 35 knots of wind on an 80l very fast slalom board. do yourself a favor and get a nice couple of no cam freeride sails and you will progress much more rapidly.

Hallelujah brother!! Finally somebody talking straight! Why making a bad favor to this guy and others like him that will go and collect all kinds of mismatched junk just becouse it is free and then struggle forever and give up at some point dissapointed or pick up kiting?! The industry needs your help to survive! Give it some love! Mr. Green
PS: sorry for all the exclamation points-got carried away Embarassed
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1308
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:30 am    Post subject: Re: tuning 5.6 sail for max power to replace 7.5 in light wind Reply with quote

Yeh, I can't really comment on a 5 cam Sailworks other than to say that it
has to be older than 2000, and it's a slalom sail. I still have an 8.5
XT2 Sailworks slalom sail circa 2000, that gets used very occasionally
in 12MPH winds. It runs 3 cams, and has a surprisingly deep draft, but it
performs best when tuned for the upper end of the wind spectrum.
A 5.6 version of this sail would scream in about 25 to 30MPH winds,
but it still couldn't be tuned to pull better than a 6.5, and it wouldn't
be great tuned like that. My XT2 was replaced by a 9.5 Retro, which
has more low end grunt, but can't be ridden into nearly as much wind.
My opinion, is that all the Sailworks sails I've ridden have better range
than any other sails of similar make in the 5.5 to 9.5 range.
Northwaves are better from 4.7 on down, but
I have a new Northwave 5.7 ZX to try out this summer, so we'll see.
Maybe it'll be able to be tuned to power up like a 7.5, but I doubt it.
More likely I'll be able to ride it into 4.2 wind. If the wind where
you live is predominantly in the 10-15MPH range, no 5.6 is going to work well to get you planing (unless you weigh 110 lbs), You might be able
to pump up to a plane, but you won't be able to maintain it.

If your big sails feel heavy, while sailing on a plane, they're probably
not tight enough in the downhaul. I know that sounds like the wrong direction from where you're headed, but a well tuned 8.5 can feel pretty
light under the right tuning.

another .02

-Craig



ittiandro wrote:

Yes, I should have thought before that it is unrealistic to expect the power of a 7.5 or an 8.5 from a 5.6, no matter how detuned it is.
You say that Sailworks sails are designed for a broad wind range but slalom sails arenít, as they are designed for the top of the wind range only. Mine is a Sailworks, but I donít know where it fits: slalom sail ( narrow range) or broad range?
Iíll give you the details. It is a few years old, probably from 2006. I just bought it 2nd hand because of the price and the seemingly good condition. It bears the description ď Sailworks Race 5.6 m2, curve MCS 3-Flex top MCS 22-27. It has 5 cams. My mast is a 460 constant curve carbon mast. I know, it does not match the flextop sail and ideally I should also use a 430 mast, but I am not overly fussy about this mismatch , since I am not a performance buff..
Is it for top-of-the Ėwindrange only or a broad range? What is the max I can get out of it in terms of power?

Thanks

Ittiandro
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1229

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your goal is to get planing with the lightest feeling sail, go camless and learn to pump. Also note: a cammed 5.5 will be about as cumbersome as a camless 6.5.
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Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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