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Giving up jibing, for now
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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 502

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tacking is under-rated and is a great skill to have, that not eveyone has. esp. on shortboards. I know at a couple of very skilled sailors who plane out of nearly every jibe (no one planes out of all jibes, even antoine and dunky), but who can't tack.

anyway, tacking is cool, esp. if it allows you to get more actual sailing time, which will help you become a better, more relaxed sailor. then, jibes will come easier. just don't expect to plane out of jibes anytime soon.

try a couple of jibes near the beginning of a session before you get tired, so you don't get into bad habits. but, don't let the lack of a jibe ruin your fun.

my .03 cents.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1492

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tacking is fine if you have a board that has enough float/volume to move around the nose. As you get better and move to smaller boards, tacking will not be a good option (tacking small boards can be done, but it takes a lot of skill and practice).

Learn to gybe on the big board. Watch videos over and over to get it visually branded into your brain.

The technique depends on your speed when entering the gybe. Sheeting in as suggested above is great if you have really good speed. It's not a good thing if you are moving at a slow to medium speed (not planing or barely planing). It's a skill that gets perfected after you do a few thousand. Why wait, it just delays leaning.
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course you can get away without gybing just fine and with tacking only-you wouldn't loose any upwind ground. Gybing is fun and looks cool but there is not much benefit from it in free riding on flat water.
A helpful tip for tacking is to grab the mast below the boom just before initiation, hooked in or unhooked, turn the board upwind and do the footwork quickly while looking up or where you want to go etc. just not looking down! Once on the other side lean the sail forward immediately to get it powered up. Once you get proficient in tacking and start to get bored you can go back to mastering the gybe.
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spennie



Joined: 13 Oct 1995
Posts: 841
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I jibe with both feet out of the straps. Always have, always will. I have several good reasons to jibe with both feet out, and have never, in 19 years of windsurfing, heard a good valid reason to keep one foot in. My theory is that itís left over from the olden days, when boards were so big you needed a strap to tilt those old monsters, and force them through a turn.
Iím not opposed to foot straps, that would be crazy, foot straps are essential to high-speed windsurfing, windsurfing in hell-chop (like Kanaha), and jumping of any kind, including Freestyle. This does not apply to Formula boards either, since they are also big monsters and need help when turning. Iím talking about normal jibes, the kind we all try to do all the time, on shortboards under 10í long.
When I was first learning to windsurf, the friend who was teaching me told me about an acquaintance of his who torqued his knee apart while falling during a jibe. I vowed that that would never happen to me, and later, since I was teaching myself, there was no one to question my innovative technique. Itís worked well for me all this time, and I have about a 95% success rate on my jibes, hereís a few reasons why:
In a traditional jibe, your feet are almost side-by-side, and too far back to keep the board in trim, so you have to compensate by applying mast base pressure. To do that, you have to lean forward, towards the front of the board, at the same time the sail is trying to pull you forward, which is why so many boards have the nose snapped off by the boom. That is one wobbly tripod! I don't have to apply mast base pressure, I'm using my front foot up near the mast, which also gives me much better leverage over the sailís pull. As a matter of fact I have a maneuver I invented called the ďDip & TossĒ, which is a lay-down jibe followed by a no-hands sail flip. Traditional jibers will never do this, because as soon as you stop applying mast base pressure, your board stalls, because your feet are too far back. This also explains why itís so hard to learn to jibe, why itís so hard for most sailors to do a planing jibe, and why probably 80%-90% of sailors will come to a near or total stop when finishing a jibe.
Surfers and skateboarders ride with their feet over the centerline, which gives them a good solid stance to control their boardís tilt, and in the case of surfers allows them to shift their weight front or back quickly & easily to control board trim. Wave sailors know this, and will open up their straps to get their feet further over the centerline, because you have greater balance, control & power when your feet are where they belong. Wave boards also have their straps closer together, usually touching at the center, to get your feet on the centerline. Of course, having your feet too deep in the straps also exposes them to possible foot breakage and/or knee destruction if their foot gets stuck during a fall, but if youíre going to jump, you must be strapped in, cíest la vie.
On a traditional jibe in rough water, the heel of your front foot is bobbing around in the air with only your toes touching while you try to control it from the knee & hip (Try driving your car with your toes curled over the top of the accellerator and your heel not touching the floor. Stop & think about that.) If your knees are properly bent and absorbing the bounce and your front foot is firmly planted on the board, you can go through 3 foot chop at speed and actually increase your control. You can even wave sail pretty well like this, but again, if you jump your boardís going to fly off your feet and blow away.
I've been asked about 100 times "Without a strap to hold it in place, doesn't your front foot fly off the board?". I always reply with "Does your back foot fly off?" Centrifugal force is pressing you onto the deck, not off it, not much chance of slipping off. That same centrifugal force is smoothing out the boardís ride, while your wider stance, over the centerline, gives you much greater control.
Try it for one full day, as you'll need a few tries to get the feel of it. Keep your knees fully bent (good for any jibe), place your back foot heel on the centerline, then your front foot comes out just as you go up & over. Put it between the front straps & mast, right behind the mast step (universal) and directly on the centerline. An alternative is to move your front foot first (gasp!), which seems to work better in rough conditions. You'll appreciate the extra nose pressure, especially if youíre a big guy like me. That same pressure keeps you glued to the board, and will help you plane through your jibe. Switch your feet in your usual way, and blast away planing!

Any questions?

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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1492

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just looked at the PWA web site for the slalom racing currently going on at Costa Brava Spain. The opening video on the home page shows a lot of gybing by the best in the world. Good to watch.

http://www.pwaworldtour.com/

Oops, now another video from earlier in the year pops up. Anyway, see you can find a video from Costa Brava.
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 660
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always said, if you want to get good at waterstarting, just work on jibes. Yes, you're going to fall a ton when trying to jibe, but it really is an essential skill if you want to advance your windsurfing.

It sounds to me like you would benefit from a better board. An SUP style board is not what you want for learing planing jibes. A formula style board is good in that it will stay on plane even if you make a lot of "procedural" mistakes, but they are not the easiest turning boards and require a fairly aggressive approach to carving the board and the sail flip.

As one of the previous posters said - it's supposed to be fun. If you're getting frustrated trying to jibe, then certainly, take some time to enjoy your sailing and use a transition that works for you (tack, pivot jibe, controlled fall/waterstart). But don't give up on the jibe. Once you get the feel of it, you will really come to enjoy the sensation and functionality of this manuver.

sm
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1492

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spennie said
Quote:
I've been asked about 100 times "Without a strap to hold it in place, doesn't your front foot fly off the board?". I always reply with "Does your back foot fly off?" Centrifugal force is pressing you onto the deck, not off it, not much chance of slipping off. That same centrifugal force is smoothing out the boardís ride, while your wider stance, over the centerline, gives you much greater control.


The back foot is on the leeward rail with lots of pressure with centrifugal force making the board carve. The front foot in the strap has almost 0 weight or force on it. Keeping it in the strap while moving at 25 knots through big chop is VERY comforting. If taking the front foot out of the strap was a good idea (at speed), you would think that there would be a few more folks using the technique, which is not the case. Many of us have developed different techniques that work for us on our gear at our venue, so we each have to find what works best for us. I am not saying that spennie is wrong, just that it isn't the norm.


Last edited by techno900 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a board big enough to float you, tacking is easier than jibing because the nose wont sink under your feet. If you have a board that doesn't float you than tacking is harder than jibing which is why many people on short boards never learn to tack not counting the "coolness" factor.

I feel a tack is a much needed skill that gives you more options in a crowd or in where to launch or land. There is nothing wrong with going away from the jibe for a while and improving your tack. That is how those of us who can tack < 80 liter boards learned.

Coachg
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1084
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto about "it's supposed to be fun." Smile

Working on tacks and stuff sounds like a good way to take a break if you're feeling real burnt out on jibe practice.

Often working on one skill in windsurfing will help you with other skills in unexpected ways, so maybe you'll find jibes easier after your break.

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FreakDrew



Joined: 03 Oct 2008
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spend some time carving from a beam reach to dead downwind and back. Try to keep your speed up throughout. This will improve your foot-steering skills and help you get a feel for how to stay powered up as the apparent wind moves around.

Plus it's fun! Imagine you are on a head-high wave Smile

When actually jibing, the problems I see people having are:

1) Not keeping the arc of their turn consistant throughout. Don't try to crank your turn. Go into your turn smoothly and sheet in a bit as the apparent wind moves. And keep that same smooth arc all the way through.

2) Don't flip the sail until it goes dead in your hands. At certain point (a bit past dead downwind for me) the true wind and apparent wind will cancel each other out and the sail will happily swing around with no effort at all.

Yeah fun is the goal... and fast smooth jibes are fun Smile

Drew
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