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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14037

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
I find no board that costs $90 that would be well suited to MY needs or wants.

Actually, I bought that $90 board as a backup after its $10 cione impressed the HELL out of me. It kept my heart in my throat all day, exceeding my hopes without ever betraying my growing trust in it, unlike some highly touted newer boards I've tried. I buy solely based on performance, without regard to cost, and I guess I'm just lucky that older boards best match my performance criteria. The best day I had on the river in about 2009 was on a board I had just paid $50 for, including bag and fin. Ditto for a 3.7 sail I bought for double digits ... which led to ordering a new one like it and tilting my whole quiver towards its design principles.

I'm just not good enough to need a board superior to what Nelson, Gnigler, Naish, Brittain, Goya, Greene, Taboul, Thommen, et.al.. can design, so I don't need to modify their best efforts. I also prefer their older designs, so a four-figure board of theirs is a step backwards for most of my sailing.

Not that my choices matter to others, but then maybe they do matter to some sailors with the same performance priorities and/or constrained budgets.

New means new ... nothing else, inherently.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 541

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
It is a specialized board dedicated to speed but with a nod to jibing, which sounds almost the opposite of your stated B&J/waves objectives

At the Gorge, B&J and waves are closely related - a bit more wind or a slightly different spot on the river, and the waves that created a B&J playground before have morphed into ridable waves (with the little bonus of not having to fight back upwind).

But here in the northeast, B&J and waves tend to be very different things. In the summer, decent conditions for wave sailing here are hard to find. Many beaches with ridable waves have severe access restrictions - often "resident only" or "no windsurfing" until labor day. In addition, the combination of good waves and decent wind is rather rare in the summer. Things get better in the fall, but most windsurfers stop sometime in October/November, making this a short season.

What typically counts as "bump and jump" here is going out in chop that ranges from orderly and nice (Kalmus SSW low tide, 15-25 mph) to chaotic voodoo chop (Kalmus SW-WSW high tide, upper 25+ mph). Most sailors mow the lawn, perhaps drag racing a bit, or trying to jibe dry in voodoo chop, with the occasional chop hop thrown in. On a lucky day at the easily accessible locations, we might find some swell that's organized and steep enough to play with it a little, and call it "waves". It might top over a bit to display some foam, but does not usually break. The few expert wave sailors sometimes take boat rides to get to waves spots that are inaccessible in the summer, but mostly SUP and wait for the summer to end. A few windsurfers here dream of loops, fewer try them or have mastered them and show us how it's done.

In Rhode Island where the OP sails most, a lot of the summer windsurfing is done on rather flat water, for example in Narragansett Bay. Speed is a pretty natural choice there, so you'll see more freerace, slalom, and formula boards there than at many other places.

edoremus337 wrote:
I..am looking to get a smaller board for 20+ winds. ... I'm trying to learn how to forward loop but mostly do flatwater sailing in the bay

For that, the SuperX 82 should be a great board - it loves flatwater and jumps well, but is small enough to handle chop reasonably well. I have tried to steer friends away from JP SuperSports in the past when I thought the board was a bad match for their skills and needs, but in this case, the board should be a good fit.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5761

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, the JP Super X seems like a great choice, especially since Super X races required a broad spectrum of high performance moves in a tight and quick racy format. As a result, it offers a flatter rocker than what would be considered in a wave board. Similarly, FSW boards also offer a flatter rocker than true wave boards.

Speaking for myself, I have found that real wave boards are not always the best in B & J conditions, so I tend to gravitate to the "wave slalom" concept. This would fall into the Super X and FSW ranges, which are arguably very much the same in my view. For the most part, I sail in the ocean, so there tends to be very long fetches for bigger wind swells to develop, to sometimes include real waves on the inside. However, when there's great wind and no ground swell, it's perfect B & J conditions. Yet, if there is a good swell running, you can easily mix it up in the waves and still have a great time. Of course, you're not as maneuverable, or as capable in off-the-lip moves like a true wave board can offer, particularly in down the line type waves.

The question you need to ask yourself is how often you sail in ocean conditions versus bayside conditions. If you spend more time in ocean conditions, do you really want to limit your sailing to the wave zone? I have to say that if waves are everything in your world, you want to be on a true wave board. If not, a bit flatter rocker would be the call. In B & J conditions you want to be quick to plane and fast to get the most out of the action.
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edoremus337



Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I am going to check out and hopefully pick up the board tomorrow. Once I get to take it for a spin I'll let you all know how it goes!
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good:: be interesting to see how it works for your requirements
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edoremus337



Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so I finally made it out on the board today. I sailed a 5.5 with the winds probably gusting to upper 20's, maybe low 30's at times (I was a bit overpowered at points) BUT I loved how the board felt and sailed. On my Starboard Carve 101 I probably complete 40% of my jibes without falling or dropping the sail but with this board, I nailed at least 95% of them. I even came out of one of them plaining, which I haven't been able to do in a while, so that was pretty awesome Smile

It was pretty bumpy with the chop and boats flying past (sailed in E. Greenwich Bay, RI) but the board seemed to handle it pretty well. When the chop settled down a bit, the speed of that board really came through. The thing was a rocket compared to what I have sailed previously.

I had my first 'oh s#!t' moment when the wind eventually died off and I was stuck in the middle of the bay in the center of a boating lane trying to waterstart. Usually I would just uphaul on my 101L board but I was stuck for a little while. Thankfully I was able to pop the sail during a gust of wind and get back on to shlog back to shore.

Overall, I'm super happy with it and cant wait to get back on!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14037

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edoremus337 wrote:
so I finally made it out on the board today ... I'm super happy with it and cant wait to get back on!

That's priorities One, Two, and Three all rolled into one great prize. Little else matters.
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