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Kona One with an Aerotech Zenith and an RDM mast
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nodak wrote:
I also used a 39 cm fin. I was going so fast I was out of breath.

Anyone who's ever rigged a Zenith knows it can be downhauled with just one hand while holding the mast the other; it requires very little downhaul. .


Sounds great, but , judging from the way my sails behave on my mast , including an Ezzy 7.5., they simply won’t rotate ( or will rotate very sluggishly in light winds) if I give just a little d/haul in order to have a tight leech. If I want to have rotation, I have no choice but giving A LOT of downhaul, even with a winch. As I sail mostly in light winds ( 12 knts), this is not good for me because it depowers the sail and I get stuck. I have a Bic Core 293, which is supposed to approach a longboard performance, but not quite. I may have to back to the longboards, as I realize the for light winds a shortboard does not work well, if at all!
I wonder if the Aerotech Zenith sail allows more than other sails for a tighter leech without compromising the rotation.

Thanks

Ittiandro
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3167

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

part of the reality of light wind app's for lots of sails is crappy rotation, but we're talking being very aggressive settings and very low winds.

kona one racers accept some rotation issues in the corners for increased performance during the legs of the course.

yes, the kona one sails are far better to be used on long boards. 10 feet and longer.

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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
part of the reality of light wind app's for lots of sails is crappy rotation,
kona one racers accept some rotation issues in the corners for increased performance during the legs of the course.

.


On a second thought, what is the downside of sluggish rotation in light winds anyway? True, there is perhaps a reduction of the sail surface, hence a loss of power, because the sail cannot stretch out completely along the sleeve, but is it that something one should really worry about, I wonder ? . Any comments?

Ittiandro
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ittiandro wrote:

I wonder if the Aerotech Zenith sail allows more than other sails for a tighter leech without compromising the rotation.

Thanks

Ittiandro


Yes, I have an Ezzy Freeride 7.5, and it's quite different from my Kona 9.0. Zenith and Kona sails are similar. The Kona is meant to be used with a tight leach, while the Ezzy doesn't look happy with a tight leach.

The only downside is the fact that you need to pop it on the right side, and maybe also use your foot to push on the lowest batten to get it to the right side. The upside is the sail stays in position, so it's always ready to propulse you forward with any slight wind puffs, a bit like with cams.
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sailboarder wrote:
ittiandro wrote:

I wonder if the Aerotech Zenith sail allows more than other sails for a tighter leech without compromising the rotation.

Thanks

Ittiandro


Yes, I have an Ezzy Freeride 7.5, and it's quite different from my Kona 9.0. Zenith and Kona sails are similar. The Kona is meant to be used with a tight leach, while the Ezzy doesn't look happy with a tight leach.

The only downside is the fact that you need to pop it on the right side, and maybe also use your foot to push on the lowest batten to get it to the right side. The upside is the sail stays in position, so it's always ready to propulse you forward with any slight wind puffs, a bit like with cams.

I wonder which of the following sails would you recommend for best light wind performance on my Bic Core 293 : Aerotech Zenith ( uncammed), Maui Sails Blazer ( cammed) or the Ezzy Lion ( cammed). I also hear that the Severne Turbo has a good rating for light winds. Would any of these light winds performers allow me smaller sail sizes ( less than 8.5, or even 7.5) to allow efficient subplaning in 12-15 knts winds?
Thanks

Ittiandro
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, the only suitable sail in your list is the sail designed to include subplaning conditions, the Zenith.

From trying before an 8.2 Kona sail, I would guess that a 8.2 Zenith with a tight leach pulls like a normal 9.2 sail like the Turbo.

But don't forget that there is no threshold when subplaning. A sail 10% bigger or more efficient will get you going only 10% or less faster. If not racing, sail handling becomes an important selection criteria since the changes in efficiency don't have huge boat speed impact ( you will be 'zipping' at 9 kts instead of 8...). That's why most people in the 80's only had one sail around 6 m.

Considering all this, a Zenith 7.4, per jingebritsen rec, could well be a good choice. And if you also look for the feeling of gliding efficiently on water, consider getting a longer board with more volume.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 855
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think part of the "problem" is the marketing of the BIC CORE 293D :

In light winds, its impressive length gives it excellent glide, perfect for cruising the coastline
at 293 cm it is still MUCH shorter than a 370 + cm LONG board

gliding sub-planing boards also tend to be NARROWER
at 79 cm i feel it is quite WIDE
and seems to have NO bottom shaping for gliding
more bottom shaping for planing than gliding

NOT saying it is not a longboard
just NOT purrfect for gliding
more like a hybrid - like the Kona


Last edited by joethewindsufa on Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:23 am; edited 3 times in total
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sailboarder wrote:


Considering all this, a Zenith 7.4, per jingebritsen rec, could well be a good choice. And if you also look for the feeling of gliding efficiently on water, consider getting a longer board with more volume.



If I used the Zenith 7.4 on my current Bic 293 instead of a longboard, for which it is ideally designed, would it give me the same power/efficiency in light winds on the Bic or would I have to step up the size?

THanks

Ittiandro
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3167

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the kona one is 348cm long.

the least length to be considered a long board is_____????

bigger sail from my world would be a freespeed 9.0 from aerotech. click on the link below and see what i mean.

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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
the kona one is 348cm long.

the least length to be considered a long board is_____????

bigger sail from my world would be a freespeed 9.0 from aerotech. click on the link below and see what i mean.


I asked the question from the perspective of “ my “world, which is not primarily planing or high speed, as perhaps yours is.
My world is subplaning in light winds, which are the prevailing conditions here.
From this perspective, my aim is to use a sail powerful enough to allow comfortable subplaning, but not too large to become hard to handle. Definitely a larger sail like the Aerotech freespeed 9.0 you suggest would help, because I find even my 8.5 bit hard to subplane, let alone plane. But then I also find the 8.5 a bit too heavy to flip around and uphaul. Probably a 9.0 even worse. It is a classic catch 22 situation!
My idea is to stay well under 8.5 m2 or or even 7.5 m2 on my Bic Core 293, by using sails optimized for sub-planing and longboarding, i.e. sails allowing a small DH (a tauter leech) and perhaps even cambered to give an additional edge.
Such a compromise should not be impossible.
I remember, with some regret, how easily my first longboard of 20 years ago would glide in the same light winds with only a 6 or a 6.5, instead of the monster sails ( in terms of size) which today’s shortboards require.

Again, would any of these longboard-friendly sails allow to replace an 8.5 with a 6.5 or a 7.0 sail for sub-planing on shortboard like the Bic Core 293, until I buy a true longboard?

Thank you

Ittiandro
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