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Problem with sheeting in after the sail flip
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14164

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta ask: have you read Mike Fick's jibe tips? At exit, my rig is floating relatively motionless in the air in front of my face on the new broad reach, untouched by human hands, right where I want it to be, after I jibe the board and -- usually -- my feet. I just reach out, grasp it in the normal locations near the lines, hook in, and sail away under full broad reach power with no interruption in speed. That part really couldn't be much simpler or smoother ... unless, of course, I screw up too badly before that point. My most common mistake is waiting too late to flip the sail, putting me in the new beam reach too soon, whereupon I get pulled forward too hard. The solution to that is jibing the sail sooner or -- heaven forbid -- slowing my rate of carve.

Mike \m/
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noshuzbluz



Joined: 18 May 2000
Posts: 774

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Gotta ask: have you read Mike Fick's jibe tips? At exit, my rig is floating relatively motionless in the air in front of my face on the new broad reach, untouched by human hands, right where I want it to be, after I jibe the board and -- usually -- my feet. I just reach out, grasp it in the normal locations near the lines, hook in, and sail away under full broad reach power with no interruption in speed."
I thought I was re-watching The Matrix there for a second! (Whoa! I know Kung Fu!)
Quote:
... "unless, of course, I screw up too badly before that point. My most common mistake is waiting too late to flip the sail, putting me in the new beam reach too soon, whereupon I get pulled forward too hard. The solution to that is jibing the sail sooner or -- heaven forbid -- slowing my rate of carve"
.....And then it went to a commercial.....
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1211

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantcantsail wrote:
Yup -its usually powered up a cambered 5.3 that rotates easily on a 100l slalom board. My jibes for sure take too long at this point but it is what it is. This normally happens on what I would consider a solid entry and carve.


As per DHmark, you are in all likelyhood flipping the sail way too late (ie holding the oversheeted portion of the carve too long.) The feeling of a great carve is seductive, and it's not uncommon to want to hold that position ("carve fascination" in ABK parlance) but it leads you down the wrong path. You have to have caught the flipped sail at 5 or 7 o'clock (just past straight downwind), so the flip must start much earlier.

Also, when you catch the sail (no matter where you are in the carve) move your front hand back ASAP...do not keep it up close to the boom head...to balance the pull between your two arms. This will give you better balance in late throws, and more power and speed to plane out in well-timed throws.

Where do you sail? As you're carrying speed through the turn it sounds like you need just one good lesson.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14164

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeconicPuffin wrote:
("carve fascination" in ABK parlance)

Very apt description! Some feel so dang good I just say the hell with jibing the sail and just carve right into the sail. Very Happy
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14164

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noshuzbluz wrote:
I thought I was re-watching The Matrix there for a second!.....And then it went to a commercial..Ö [and, on 9 Aug] isoparanoid thinks I'm out to sell somebody something ... My jibes suck

Somebody sounds jealous. That's OK, Shuz ... you'll start making your jibes one of these years, then maybe even get past the hand over hand over hand Riverdance Clinic step jibe (I know where you can find a tutorial that may help.) But youíre the one with websites, not I, so I donít get paid to bloviate.
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vikingsail



Joined: 12 May 1998
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flip sail, with front hand next to mast, underhand reach, with other arm, to new side and look thru the flip or entire flip. Keep new front hand straight and forward. New back hand takes as much pressure as possible. NO mast grabbing please! Don't look at the flip. Think of active shoulder to shoulder flip.
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noshuzbluz



Joined: 18 May 2000
Posts: 774

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
noshuzbluz wrote:
I thought I was re-watching The Matrix there for a second!.....And then it went to a commercial..Ö [and, on 9 Aug] isoparanoid thinks I'm out to sell somebody something ... My jibes suck

Somebody sounds jealous. That's OK, Shuz ... you'll start making your jibes one of these years, then maybe even get past the hand over hand over hand Riverdance Clinic step jibe (I know where you can find a tutorial that may help.) But youíre the one with websites, not I, so I donít get paid to bloviate.


isobars wrote:
At exit, my rig is floating relatively motionless in the air in front of my face on the new broad reach, untouched by human hands, right where I want it to be. I screw up too badly before that point.


"My jibes suck because I'm outta shape and haven't sailed or done anything else in 3 months."

You forgot the rest of what I said. I know what to do and how to do it but once I get tired I start making mistakes and do survival jibes.
I posted a video of me jibing more than once. I say put your video camera where your mouth is.

Aaaaand here come the excuses..........

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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2417

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flipping the sail late is a common problem. my broken record inputs: flip before yo are headed straight downwind, crouch low, back hand back 4-6 further upon jibe entry.

also. look at some duck jibe videos. try a few. don't worry that you have not successfully completed much with any other jibes. just view them, visualize doing them. try a few. if nothing else, it may help you break the habit of flipping the sail too late. that's because one has to flip the sail earlier in ducks.... again, crouch.

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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1170
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsail wrote:
Flip sail, with front hand next to mast, underhand reach, with other arm, to new side and look thru the flip or entire flip. Keep new front hand straight and forward. New back hand takes as much pressure as possible. NO mast grabbing please! Don't look at the flip. Think of active shoulder to shoulder flip.


Hmm, it's been overhand reach for a while now. Underhand reach was so 90's Smile
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1211

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:


Hmm, it's been overhand reach for a while now. Underhand reach was so 90's Smile


LOL. I usually go underhand, but sometimes find I've gone overhand, which I credit to nonplaning freestyle (ie do whatever it takes to keep the board and sail trimmed.)

jingebritsen makes a great suggestion vv duck jibes. Amongst its many beauties, the sail is caught BEFORE the board is headed straight downwind, so the return to powered sailing starts ASAP. If you want to plane out of a jibe it's practically cheating! Seriously though, it teaches the importance of the early sail flip...you can't wait until you've been carving for awhile.

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