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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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 Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| pointster wrote: | | please show me how they give "tacit support" to the views you find objectionable. It seems to me that you want to judge them based upon what other people say, not on their own statements. |
*I* judge them by the full-context broadcasts of their speeches. Di Blasio has all but laid the full blame on his own police force, Holder has all but blamed the Feguson cop for killing a man who was not a threat to his life, and Sharpton should be in prison for inciting riots and contributing to the death of those two minority NYPD officers.
No, I'm not going to dig up all the speeches we've seen from just Di Blasio and Holder, let alone that rabid animal, Sharpton; I have a life. If you really want to see them, they're all on the internet. Do your own homework.
Sorry to be so rude, but I am truly swamped. I make time for short breaks, but can't for long ones.
Last edited by isobars on Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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However De Blasio and Holder said what they said, The Gov of NY, and the president of the NYPD sergeant's assn. agree that it was inflammatory.
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NYPD cops furious with Bill de Blasio turn their backs on the mayor as he enters hospital where officers died
The police unions have been ticked off by the support de Blasio has shown the legions protesting a Staten Island grand jury’s decision not to indict a cop in Eric Garner’s July 17 chokehold death.
BY Rocco Parascandola , Jennifer Fermino , Bill Hutchinson /
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS /
Published: Saturday, December 20, 2014, 9:51 PM
/ Updated: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 7:52 AM
Believing City Hall has betrayed them, cops demonstrated their anger Saturday by turning their backs on Mayor de Blasio as he entered a Brooklyn hospital to pay his respects to two murdered officers.
A startling video shows a hallway at Woodhull Hospital filled with officers silently facing away from de Blasio as he walks a blue gantlet.
The demonstration, captured by WPIX11 News, included the presidents of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association and the Sergeants Benevolent Association.
“Mayor de Blasio, the blood of these two officers is clearly on your hands,” Ed Mullins, president of the sergeants association, said in a statement to his union members Saturday night.
“It is your failed policies and actions that enabled this tragedy to occur,” he said. “I only hope and pray that more of these ambushes and executions do not happen again.”
Patrick Lynch, head of the PBA, echoed Mullins’ anger at the mayor.
“That blood on the hands starts on the steps of City Hall in the office of the mayor,” Lynch said in statement. “When these funerals are over, those responsible will be called on the carpet and held accountable.”
He added that the blame also goes to “those who incited violence on the street under the guise of protest that tried to tear down what NYC police officers did every day.”
“We tried to warn,” Lynch said. “It must not go on. It cannot be tolerated.”
Sergeants Benevolent Association President Ed Mullins said it was Mayor de Blasio's 'failed policies and actions that enabled this tragedy to occur.'
Former Gov. George Pataki also lashed out against the mayor, claiming the cops’ deaths were a “predictable outcome of divisive anti-cop rhetoric of #ericholder & #mayordiblasio.”
Shortly after the officers were killed, a MoveOn.org petition was formed demanding de Blasio’s ouster.
“NYC residents demand the exit of Mayor Bill DeBlasio after 2 NYPD officers were shot and killed today 12/20/14,” wrote the petitioners, who identified themselves as “The People of NYC.” The petitioners said de Blasio was “unfit to lead this city” and “unfit to have a relationship with his police department.”
“Accountability for his actions and words MUST be handed down,” they wrote, demanding, “proper protocol to be followed to name a replacement before a special election.”
For the rest~
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-cops-turn-backs-de-blasio-hospital-article-1.2052215 |
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pointster
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 376
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Another take on the matter from Kevin Drum at Mother Jones:
"Let's Blame Conservatives For All the Killings They're Responsible For
—By Kevin Drum
Sun Dec. 21, 2014 11:41 AM EST
Via Atrios, here is America's-mayor-for-life Rudy Giuliani commenting on the killing of two New York City police officers yesterday by a deranged gunman:
“We’ve had four months of propaganda starting with the president that everybody should hate the police,” Giuliani said during an appearance on Fox News on Sunday. “The protests are being embraced, the protests are being encouraged. The protests, even the ones that don’t lead to violence, a lot of them lead to violence, all of them lead to a conclusion. The police are bad, the police are racist. That is completely wrong.”
....The former mayor also criticized President Barack Obama, Holder, and Al Sharpton for addressing the underlining racial tensions behind the failure to indict the white police officers who killed [Eric Garner on Staten Island] and Mike Brown in Ferguson. “They have created an atmosphere of severe, strong, anti-police hatred in certain communities. For that, they should be ashamed of themselves,” he said.
Fair enough. But I assume this means we can blame Bill O'Reilly for his 28 episodes of invective against "Tiller the Baby Killer" that eventually ended in the murder of Wichita abortion provider George Tiller by anti-abortion activist Scott Roeder. We can blame conservative talk radio for fueling the anti-government hysteria that led Timothy McVeigh to bomb a federal building in Oklahoma City. We can blame the relentless xenophobia of Fox News for the bombing of an Islamic Center in Joplin or the massacre of Sikh worshippers by a white supremacist in Wisconsin. We can blame the NRA for the mass shootings in Newtown and Aurora. We can blame Republicans for stoking the anti-IRS paranoia that prompted Andrew Joseph Stack to crash a private plane into an IRS building in Austin, killing two people. We can blame the Christian Right for the anti-gay paranoia that led the Westboro Baptist Church to picket the funeral of Matthew Snyder, a US Marine killed in Iraq, with signs that carried their signature "God Hates Fags" slogan. We can blame Sean Hannity for his repeated support of Cliven Bundy's "range war" against the BLM, which eventually motivated Jerad and Amanda Miller to kill five people in Las Vegas after participating in the Bundy standoff and declaring, "If they're going to come bring violence to us, well, if that's the language they want to speak, we'll learn it." And, of course, we can blame Rudy Giuliani and the entire conservative movement for their virtually unanimous indifference to the state-sanctioned police killings of black suspects over minor offenses in Ferguson and Staten Island, which apparently motivated the murder of the New York police officers on Saturday.
Or wait. Maybe we can't do any of those things. Maybe lots of people support lots of things, and we can't twist that generalized support into blame for maniacs who decide to take up arms for their own demented reasons. Maybe that's a better idea after all." |
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KGB-NP
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Poinster, in case you read my last post before I added the following, here 'tis:
Sorry to be so rude, but I am truly swamped. I make time for short breaks, but can't for long ones.
Last edited by isobars on Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| It is pointless debating an issue with someone who relies on Mother Jones for his opinions, so I will simply draw your attention to the 40 Justice Department agents who were sent to Ferguson months ago, and who are still trying to find something to support the public statements of their boss asserting police bias. You see no connection between the deaths of the two NYC officers and the rabble rousers..........many, many do including the 13 year old son of one of those officers who posted on Facebook "Everyone says they hate cops but they are the people that they call for help. I will always love you and I will never forget you. RIP Dad.” Clearly not a Mother Jones subscriber. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14881
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | It is pointless debating an issue with someone who relies on Mother Jones for his opinions, so I will simply draw your attention to the 40 Justice Department agents who were sent to Ferguson months ago, and who are still trying to find something to support the public statements of their boss asserting police bias. You see no connection between the deaths of the two NYC officers and the rabble rousers..........many, many do including the 13 year old son of one of those officers who posted on Facebook "Everyone says they hate cops but they are the people that they call for help. I will always love you and I will never forget you. RIP Dad.” Clearly not a Mother Jones subscriber. |
well then since you hate mother jones so much, you can find that exact pointing out by me over and over again in this thread and the media thread. Maybe Mother Jones writer read my points I have been saying here and other forums for years. He missed a few others one radio talk show host who said to take out a liberal talk show host, was killed by a rabid right winger. And again the most important is that the right wing does not remove these racists and just say no to them in their party. That the right wing actually encourages their hate base as Lee Atwater the right wing architech told us and Rove followed up with. That is the right wing brand, inclusion of racists. again posted this information at least one time on this forum.
again right wingers even say McVeigh is a hero. and so on, he just missed my points that the right wing makes these killers to be heros to their party. IE like Cliven Bundy and his murderers.
I am all for firing any racist police officers and replacing them with minorities as a start. then fire all racist judges.
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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As was said of McCarthy, "You sir, have no shame." Neither iso nor mrgybe have a clue. This is particularly ignorant:
| Quote: | | I don't see how Sharpton is guilty of anything less than Inciting to Riot, now enhanced by two murders. Even DiBlasio and Obama, by the implicit and/or overt blame they place on police strategy, tactics, and behavior with virtually no blame on the behavior of the two unarguably culpable perps, have blood on their hands. |
Iso is all over gun rights, no matter how many children are killed. But does he understand the first amendment? Maybe he should take a look at the Brandenberg decision--8-0, including Thurgood Marshall--that a speech given by Ku Klux Klanner Brandenberg was protected speech under the First Amendment. A crime is only committe if the prosecution can establish a link between the words spoken and the subsequent violence. Believe it or not, any of the thousands of people of color stopped and frisked in New York City under the previous mayor have reasons to hate the police--no matter what Obama did or did not say.
From the Atlantic, not Mother Jones:
| Quote: | in 2011, the police recorded 686,000 stops. Only about 12 percent of these ended in an arrest or a summons. Between 2002 and 2013, says Donna Lieberman, the head of the New York Civil Liberties Union, “innocent people were subjected to this by-no-means-minor intrusion more than 4.4 million times.”
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http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/03/is-stop-and-frisk-worth-it/358644/
C'mon now you McCarthyites--applaud the judge that found the program unconstitutional, and support reform for police practices that are based on community policing, not intimidation. In New York, they are reaping what they sowed--and you fools are blaming Obama. But you say you're neither haters nor bigots. I don't believe your denials. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14881
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| nw30 wrote: | However De Blasio and Holder said what they said, The Gov of NY, and the president of the NYPD sergeant's assn. agree that it was inflammatory.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NYPD cops furious with Bill de Blasio turn their backs on the mayor as he enters hospital where officers died
The police unions have been ticked off by the support de Blasio has shown the legions protesting a Staten Island grand jury’s decision not to indict a cop in Eric Garner’s July 17 chokehold death.
BY Rocco Parascandola , Jennifer Fermino , Bill Hutchinson /
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS /
Published: Saturday, December 20, 2014, 9:51 PM
/ Updated: Sunday, December 21, 2014, 7:52 AM
"bla bla bla"
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-cops-turn-backs-de-blasio-hospital-article-1.2052215 |
NYDN isn't that still another Fux news organization sleaze paper owned by none other than the right wing hater and sleaze magnet himself Australian Ruppert Murdoch, the ultra right wing trust fund kid who hates and took his daddy's real newspaper and turned it into an enquirer in Australia and then took it all over the world.
The same organization that was convicted of taping into dead people and live peoples cell phones. The same company person whos sleaze agents tried to do the same with 9-11 victims. Yet Bush did not go after that crime. Yep Ruppy trust fund kid owns that sleaze newspaper.
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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pointster
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 376
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | It is pointless debating an issue with someone who relies on Mother Jones for his opinions, so I will simply draw your attention to the 40 Justice Department agents who were sent to Ferguson months ago, and who are still trying to find something to support the public statements of their boss asserting police bias. You see no connection between the deaths of the two NYC officers and the rabble rousers..........many, many do including the 13 year old son of one of those officers who posted on Facebook "Everyone says they hate cops but they are the people that they call for help. I will always love you and I will never forget you. RIP Dad.” Clearly not a Mother Jones subscriber. |
Well, Wall Street Journal editorials are posted here quite often, so I figured a Mother Jones piece would be a change of pace. And, I form my own opinions, thank you.
And yes, many do make a connection, but I believe it is a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The killer is dead, and we have no evidence that the words of Holder or DeBlasio or anyone else motivated him to act.
What I think is you have a low opinion of black people, and don't believe that they can take in information with their own eyes and ears, and rise up spontaneously when they perceive injustice. To you they are "rabble" and need a rabble-rouser to get them to act. Examine your conscience, then tell me I am wrong. |
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