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Racism and America
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In public grade school the children were / are all put together regardless of whatever. In high school the courses were / are either general level or university level, and I took all university level courses. There's also gifted courses in certain high schools.

Currently my youngest is in public grade school. There is one child who is so disruptive that he throws tantrums where he'll throw chairs, overturns desks, harms other students, screams at teachers.....etc. The teacher has a code word for when the children are to evacuate the class to a safe place while he freaks out. He's been to 4 different schools, he's morbidly obese, lacks any form of discipline, and judging by the outwardly appearance of his morbidly obese parents lacking any visible signs of concern for hygiene, he is only acting on what he knows...........SO, why do I have to put up with, accommodate, condone, support this nonsense? Better yet, why do the teachers have to do so, and why do they, me, or my child have to worry about others, or their, safety?

In high school it gets even better! The constant peer pressure of drug and alcohol use. The bullying that my daughter experience simply because she is beautiful, wholesome, polite, timid and quiet. The bullying of my neighbour's daughter to the point she dropped out of school just to get away from it. The promiscuity to the point that one girl tweeted she would have sex with a guy if he would drive her home. It's insane, and then the parents condone and encourage this type of behavior. In the case of my neighbour's daughter the father of one of the bully girls approached my neighbour, who has the physical stature and looks like Mr. Burns on the Simpsons, in the liquor store and was threatening him and would not let him into his car to leave. It was funny he didn't have much to say to me when I gave him the same opportunity. He scurried off with his tail between his legs when I asked him about his and his daughter's behaviour towards my neighbours. His daughter was only doing what she learned from her father, and she was the one who was having sex for a ride home too, but I think that attribute came from mommy dearest.

Anecdotal yes, but isolated incidences no. I feel sorry for the children and the teachers if anything.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
he'll throw chairs, overturns desks, harms other students, screams at teachers.....etc.

In high school it gets even better! The constant peer pressure of drug and alcohol use.

None of my high school classmates even smoked cigarettes or drank beer except "out behind the barn". At parties? No way. I never once saw ANY indication of ANY recreational drugs at college ... in the '60s! We had neither the time nor the inclination.

The worst offense I saw in class in high school was a clown who threw some serious spitballs. Had to write "I shall not throw spitballs in class" hundreds of times on the blackboard, and learned his lesson.

Different times, different worlds.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The downfall of the public educational system won't be reversed until society recognizes that the old style "family unit" with positive morals, work ethic, discipline, drive, responsibility, honesty & respect comes back to be the norm. So it's not so much the educational system, it's the raw material it has to work with each day in the classroom. This doesn't mean that there aren't problems in the system, there are, but the best system in the world will have difficulty "teaching" an unmotivated, lazy, rebellious, undisciplined kid.

The "family unit" still exists today, but in much fewer numbers than in the 40's, 50's & 60's. And were it is still intact, it is threatened by the "Me Generation" attitudes that weaken the basic societal principals that this country was built upon.

Maybe not as bad as suggested above, but fixing it seems to be an almost impossible task.

Can local, state and federal governments fix the problems? They feel compelled to try, but it's societal attitudes that need fixing and I doubt that government can do much in the short run to change anything. I guess this is where liberal and conservative views may oppose one another.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably. One side wants to dictate our overt behavior on a national scale via political correctness and mandates, while the other wants to instill it on a personal level via moral values. Both fringes overdo it, but at least their irrational exuberance helps define and constrain middle ground.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will assume that this is a serious comment, and not of the ilk "nobody in my high school smoked."

Quote:
There is one child who is so disruptive that he throws tantrums where he'll throw chairs, overturns desks, harms other students, screams at teachers.....etc. The teacher has a code word for when the children are to evacuate the class to a safe place while he freaks out. He's been to 4 different schools, he's morbidly obese, lacks any form of discipline, and judging by the outwardly appearance of his morbidly obese parents lacking any visible signs of concern for hygiene, he is only acting on what he knows...........SO, why do I have to put up with, accommodate, condone, support this nonsense? Better yet, why do the teachers have to do so, and why do they, me, or my child have to worry about others, or their, safety?


This illustrates the problems of the hard to educate, and I would ask you to think it through with some knowledge of the law and with some empathy. Your comments make a series of assumptions about the child and his parents, of the sort that offend me mightily, and I would suggest that you don't know. Here is why.

In my first grade this year, there was a young girl with some type of learning disability. When she didn't get her way, or was frustrated, she would scream so loudly that the children would cover their ears and get very upset. At times she seemed normal and craved approval from me and the teacher's aid. I am not sure what her diagnosis was, or whether the underlying problem was behavioral or mental disability. Certainly rumors abounded, but the teacher went through the mental health avenues, and she is no longer in the classroom. I was humble, and experienced, enough to know that I didn't know what the underlying cause was.

There are children like this, who have disabilities for various reasons. What the snide and judgmental comments fail to realize is that those children, and their parents, have a legal right to an education that accommodates their special needs. At the beginning of the year, particularly in the lower grades where children's disabilities may not have been diagnosed, the mental health people in the school system are overwhelmed, and are working on a triage basis. What many here don't seem to understand is that the laws require that children with special needs be educated in the mainstream, rather than in separate, and what were historically unequal, classrooms. It teaches children without disabilities empathy (something that perhaps Isobars missed in the segregationist South), and reflects an important fact. We don't always know what the horizons of those children might be eventually. Think Stephen Hawking. And a Big Bang to you too.

I repeat, the public education system is saddled with hard to educate children when the best and brightest, of all races, flee the system. Whatever the motivation, the impacts of these individual decisions are highly discriminatory to African-Americans and Hispanics. The concentration of wealth since 1987, where those in the top percent saw their income rise by more than 78%, while those in the bottom 60% saw their income fall by close to 20% has exacerbated this trend. To ignore the discriminatory racial impacts of this trend is to put your head deep in the sand and become part of the problem.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac said:
Quote:
I repeat, the public education system is saddled with hard to educate children when the best and brightest, of all races, flee the system. Whatever the motivation, the impacts of these individual decisions are highly discriminatory to African-Americans and Hispanics.


I understand your point, so what do you suggest as a solution?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno,
Why do you think liberal and conservative views are opposed on this?
It is an area in which folks seem to be on the same page in real life.
I have never heard a education person say anything else.


Last edited by keycocker on Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question. I don't necessarily see this as a liberal vs conservative issue, but ............

I think parents have the right to choose public or private schools, and if private isn't an option because of cost, then finding/moving to a different community for better public schools is an option. Not easy or possible to do for some, especially for those in public housing, or where there may not be affordable housing, but as I said before, what is the solution?

Do liberals want the same level/quality of education for everyone? Conservatives probably do, but not at the cost of watering down quality education for the benefit of inferior education. I don't have a solution.
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Mac. Let's dumb it down in the name of empathy. Laughing
PWA is giving out trophies and prize cheque to the most mediocre contestant this year too, or not.

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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do I understand the liberal position correctly?

1 Anyone can send their kids to any school they can afford. no limits on that.
2 A mostly free education system for everybody, which is quite weak at this time.
3 Spend more to improve it. Money doesn't always work so make it work with little waste.
$ Do not weaken the public system by giving its funding away in vouchers.

Do I understand the conservative position correctly?

1 Anyone can send their kids to any school they can afford. no limits on that.
2 A mostly free education system for everybody, which is quite weak at this time.
3 Spend more to improve it. Money doesn't always work so make it work with little waste.
4 Weaken the public system by draining funds away through vouchers.
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