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Racism and America
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
It says a lot when some are adamant about a woman's "choice" to abort a fetus, but then would demonize responsible parents for their "choice" to provide a nurturing, healthy, safe and productive learning environment for their children.


Reiner

I believe in a woman's choice. I also believe parents should be able to send their kids to any school they wish. I did not see anyone demonizing that choice.

I don't expect those that disagree with my views on woman's choice be forced to pay for abortions. I also expect that I should not be forced to pay for kids to go to private or religious schools.

There is a mechanism, at least in Colorado, where parents can create charter schools that do receive taxpayer money and provide the environment (without the religion) that you desire.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure?

"The urge to segregate white children from black children is a significant force behind the right wing movement to defund public schools, home school, allow vouchers, and encourage charter schools. "
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure?

"The urge to segregate white children from black children is a significant force behind the right wing movement to defund public schools, home school, allow vouchers, and encourage charter schools. "
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reiner

There is a big difference between choices a parent may make in choosing how to educate their children and how the political arm of the right wing operates.

I do believe that there is an element within the political right that is perfectly O.K. with...hell in fact encourages...separation of races and the continued exploitation of the lower class worker. School funding is just another mechanism to accomplish this.

The far right in the US has a long history of trying to meld conservative religious views, social views and financial views in an all or nothing package...and have been successful at it. IMO, the goal has been to retain power and wealth. It is not a moral crusade.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"a significant force"?

OR

a small segment of the population who would do so based upon that reason (segregation of races) alone?


And on the flip side is this in a city of multicultural pride:
http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2013/02/28/ontarios_first_africentric_high_school_program_to_open_this_fall.html
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5364

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A significant part of the reasons Southerners have found ways to resegregate the schools, yes indeed. And just when you think that Isobars' respect for MLK may temper some of his unreasonableness, he again sings the praise of the segregationist Alabama life he grew up in, and how the Yankees had it all wrong. And know-nothing Bard, part of a grand tradition of being uninformed in America that dates back to the Copperheads, decides I don't want equality.

What a bunch! Nothing in response to actual reasoned comments. Just for Bard, who "knows" based on faith, not facts, that everyone knows--African American parents in Michele's Rhee's Washington D.C. chased her and her ideas about "choice" out of town--on a rail. African American parents similarly scorned the ideas of New York politicians who favored parental "choice." You don't bother to comment on the problems of taking the best students out of public schools and leaving them to struggle with the hard to educate. You don't bother to actually work in schools so you might know something. You can't possibly be bothered to read any of the literature. You know nothing. Nothing at all.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read this:

http://www.gse.harvard.edu/news_events/features/1999/orfielddeseg06081999.html

Another reason I am so glad I am Canadian.

The other night I explained to my son, the best I could, about the whole ACA issue. I finished with "just be glad you live here, because there is little to envy down there."
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting...

The government should get out of education but supply us all the health care we want? Eh?
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said government should get out of education. My view is that if people exercise their choice to put their children into private school then that is their business. I didn't do so with vouchers or tax credits and I don't think I would favor that system personally. I do think that public schools are going for a crap, but not because of teachers directly, but more because of the behavior of students and parents that condone or encourage a lack of discipline. I have first hand evidence of why my choice paid off in my children, and then my children and I got to make a direct comparison once they entered public high school. The public high school is a joke in comparison and the behavior of some of the students is appalling.

The school should adopt a zero tolerance policy to the ignorance they are left to deal with. If students want to be a pain then kick them out and let mommy and daddy deal with them. The teachers job is to teach, not babysit delinquents.

AND, I wasn't just referring to our health care either.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5891

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if it is still done in public schools, but when I when to school, starting with junior high school, kids of like abilities were put together. Similarly, the quality of teachers were matched with the different levels of kids.

I can honestly say that I was never in the classes with the kids that had discipline problems. If you did well on educational testing over the years and achieved reasonably good grades, you always got the best teachers, and your classmates were more like you. Even outside of those with discipline problems, there were kids that I never shared any classes with, and teachers I never had. Usually, the best teachers in the school were the ones that taught the academic elective classes.

When you think back, were you one of those kids that took those more challenging academic elective classes?

Regarding Bard's experiences with his kids in school, it could be that they're still doing things like they used to. Also, if parents are adamant about the quality of their child's education, it wouldn't surprise me if their child would be given a chance to excel and receive the best the school had to offer.
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