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Racism and America
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac said:
Quote:
Strange how you are silent on the thrust of my comment—the ultra rich got served by the GOP, they’ve cost us jobs, and perhaps they have some responsibility to create, not destroy, jobs.


Strange? Yes indeed, since the topic was Amazon not paying taxes, not how the ultra rich got served by the GOP. Because Amazon didn't pay federal taxes in 2017 while using the OLD tax code, that has some relationship with Trump's new tax bill?

Do you feel cheated because some big corporations may not pay enough tax to keep your little heart happy? Who in the past has tried to simplify the tax code other than Trump? Destroyed jobs? Funny since we are essentially at FULL EMPLOYMENT. Even the liberal media sees this as news worthy.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Mac said:
Quote:
Strange how you are silent on the thrust of my comment—the ultra rich got served by the GOP, they’ve cost us jobs, and perhaps they have some responsibility to create, not destroy, jobs.


Strange? Yes indeed, since the topic was Amazon not paying taxes, not how the ultra rich got served by the GOP. Because Amazon didn't pay federal taxes in 2017 while using the OLD tax code, that has some relationship with Trump's new tax bill?

Do you feel cheated because some big corporations may not pay enough tax to keep your little heart happy? Who in the past has tried to simplify the tax code other than Trump? Destroyed jobs? Funny since we are essentially at FULL EMPLOYMENT. Even the liberal media sees this as news worthy.


Techno

I've been reading some about this theory of "full employment" and it is sort of a meaningless number. The theory is that there are enough jobs for everyone. The problem is that many are not in this workforce because the jobs do not pay enough or are not in the right field or location. ie it is easier for some to stay at home and care for children on parents than be underemployed. And, there is a lot of that.

A more interesting number is the labor force participation rate which is at a 30 year low. Think the 10000 baby boomers leaving the workforce and the underemployed discussed above.

Is this number Trump's fault. Of course not. It's market math that is systemic.

But, cutting corporate taxes may do nothing for this. We have to see significant wage increases and that may cause inflation.

It is always so interesting to me that politicians jump on these job numbers which often have little to do with short term policy decisions and take credit or them. This may come back to haunt Trump. He promised 200000 jobs a month. That may not be sustainable.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9118
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
nw30 wrote:
mac wrote:


Strange how you are silent on the thrust of my comment—the ultra rich got served by the GOP, they’ve cost us jobs, and perhaps they have some responsibility to create, not destroy, jobs.

More sphincter logic, replace "comment" with fart, and it would actually be accurate.

Never mind the current unemployment rate, not with just whites, but all races, record lows,,,,,,,,,, just incase you haven't been paying attention.


Yes. A trend expected to continue for years, largely, because of some math that neither party gets to take credit for.

10000 baby boomers a day turn 65.

true dat. The labor force keeps shrinking and both political parties spin it up..Towns and neighborhoods are littered with 65 year old guys with grey ponytails driving Sprinters , and drinking coffee..
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17744
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funnier and funnier how "conservatives" alter the narrative to support Trump and deny having ever said what used to be conventional wisdom on the right.

I have to laugh about Techno's posting. Trump and the Republicans are not responsible for a tax code that allowed Amazon to pay no taxes--but Trump gets all credit for an unprecedented 8 years of economic growth. Under Obama, when employment increased but wages did not, it was his fault, and there were pages of angry postings by the right here about how Obama and liberals had forced people out of the economy and the unemployment rate was much higher than the statistics. Now the underemployed and those who have left the workforce in despair are ignored, hail der Trumpster.

But the most ridiculous is the idea that Trump has somehow simplified the tax code. First, neither he nor any of his senior staff had much to do with the bill--they were busy dodging indictment. Second, fiscal responsibility was abandoned like a cheap suit. Third--simplified? take a look at the new loopholes. Only in the abstract do Republicans rail against creating winners and losers in the economy.

The purpose of the tax cut was to reward the rich who paid for their last campaigns, and insure a steady stream of new campaign contributions. Lt's look at Icahn for one. Carl Icahn, worth about $20 billion, barely dodged an insider trading case when he dumped his steel stock--just before Trump threatened sanctions and the stock plummeted. (Yes, you can make the case that the entire Trump administration is an insider trading game.) He will save billions in taxes, he got a hardship waiver on clean air standards (can't have him spending any of that $20 billion to protect public health and create jobs), and will donate millions to Republican campaigns.

Simplify? Ensure campaign contributions. Laugh of the morning.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/people-who-will-cash-in-big-from-the-trump-tax-plan.html/?a=viewall
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggs said:
Quote:
I've been reading some about this theory of "full employment" and it is sort of a meaningless number.

I don't disagree, but at least fewer folks are sitting on the sideline wishing they had a job.

Those that will make an effort to get the training for a specific vocation/trade will do well over time. Those that complain because they only get a minimum wage for flipping burgers or stocking shelves won't.

It seems like those in minimum wage jobs a few decades ago were not there expecting a living wage. Those jobs were for summer employment, high school drop outs and HS grads just getting started in the blue collar work force. Those that performed well advanced and had the opportunity to have a living wage job.

So what's different today? Fewer folks actually learning a trade or skill that could pay a living wage? Certainly fewer manfacturing jobs, some that had extremely high wages that eventually priced the jobs out of the country (unions take the blame for that). I also suspect that there are a lot of folks that want/expect more money for a no skill job, which isn't likely to happen.

Nevetheless, jobs and the economy aren't tanking under Trump.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9118
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not me.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac said:
Quote:
But the most ridiculous is the idea that Trump has somehow simplified the tax code.


From Money Magazine:
Quote:

Here's How to Tell Whether the New GOP Tax Plan Will Simplify Your Taxes

By Shaina Mishkin December 20, 2017
The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, the Republican tax plan on the brink of becoming law, could change the way over 27 million U.S. taxpayers file their taxes. Are you one of them?

While the plan might not lead to the postcard-sized tax filings Republicans once touted, it will encourage more taxpayers to opt for the standard deduction. According to the Tax Policy Center’s latest analysis, the number of U.S. taxpayers likely to itemize would fall from 46.5 million — roughly one third of the total — to 19.3 million in 2018, the first year the bill would be in effect.

To understand the dramatic drop, you need to first grasp a few things about how the tax code works. In any given year, taxpayers can choose between claiming the standard deduction or itemizing their deductions.

Those who choose the standard deduction can subtract a pre-set amount of income — for 2017, it’s $6,350 for single filers and $12,700 for those filing jointly — from their gross earnings before income tax rates are applied. Those who choose to itemize, on the other hand, arrive at the amount of income they can subtract by claiming eligible deductions, like those for mortgage interest or state taxes.

While itemizing can save you money, it’s a big hassle, multiplying the number of forms and other paperwork filers need to send to the IRS. Documenting deductions is a big reason the average American taxpayer spends upwards of two work days on their tax return.

The biggest — but not only — reason fewer taxpayers will itemize under Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is a dramatic increase in the standard deduction. The bill would double the value of the provision to $12,000 for single filers and $24,000 for those filing jointly.

The tax plan would also curtail the value of some deductions taxpayers can currently claim, making to itemizing less attractive. For instance, the plan would cap the state and local tax deduction at $10,000 for property or income taxes and would limit deductible mortgage interest to loans worth $750,000 or less, down from the current $1 million cap.

The upshot is that for many taxpayers itemizing would become less attractive, leading additional numbers to claim the new, increased standard deduction instead.

Of course, for taxpayers who already claim the standard deduction, the tax bill won’t impact the way they file. And for those who are affected, the change won’t be permanent since many of the bills individual provisions expire after 2025.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
mac said:
Quote:
But the most ridiculous is the idea that Trump has somehow simplified the tax code.


From Money Magazine:
Quote:

Here's How to Tell Whether the New GOP Tax Plan Will Simplify Your Taxes

By Shaina Mishkin December 20, 2017
The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, the Republican tax plan on the brink of becoming law, could change the way over 27 million U.S. taxpayers file their taxes. Are you one of them?

While the plan might not lead to the postcard-sized tax filings Republicans once touted, it will encourage more taxpayers to opt for the standard deduction. According to the Tax Policy Center’s latest analysis, the number of U.S. taxpayers likely to itemize would fall from 46.5 million — roughly one third of the total — to 19.3 million in 2018, the first year the bill would be in effect.

To understand the dramatic drop, you need to first grasp a few things about how the tax code works. In any given year, taxpayers can choose between claiming the standard deduction or itemizing their deductions.

Those who choose the standard deduction can subtract a pre-set amount of income — for 2017, it’s $6,350 for single filers and $12,700 for those filing jointly — from their gross earnings before income tax rates are applied. Those who choose to itemize, on the other hand, arrive at the amount of income they can subtract by claiming eligible deductions, like those for mortgage interest or state taxes.

While itemizing can save you money, it’s a big hassle, multiplying the number of forms and other paperwork filers need to send to the IRS. Documenting deductions is a big reason the average American taxpayer spends upwards of two work days on their tax return.

The biggest — but not only — reason fewer taxpayers will itemize under Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is a dramatic increase in the standard deduction. The bill would double the value of the provision to $12,000 for single filers and $24,000 for those filing jointly.

The tax plan would also curtail the value of some deductions taxpayers can currently claim, making to itemizing less attractive. For instance, the plan would cap the state and local tax deduction at $10,000 for property or income taxes and would limit deductible mortgage interest to loans worth $750,000 or less, down from the current $1 million cap.

The upshot is that for many taxpayers itemizing would become less attractive, leading additional numbers to claim the new, increased standard deduction instead.

Of course, for taxpayers who already claim the standard deduction, the tax bill won’t impact the way they file. And for those who are affected, the change won’t be permanent since many of the bills individual provisions expire after 2025.


Unless you have small businesses, Techno. Then the new tax code is just a whole bunch more stuff than it was before. We are struggling with the tax implications of the new code in our businesses and coming up with all sorts of issues we cannot deal with and our accountant hasn't been able to figure it out because it was poorly written.

Great...wonderful legislation.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
boggs said:
Quote:
I've been reading some about this theory of "full employment" and it is sort of a meaningless number.

I don't disagree, but at least fewer folks are sitting on the sideline wishing they had a job.

Those that will make an effort to get the training for a specific vocation/trade will do well over time. Those that complain because they only get a minimum wage for flipping burgers or stocking shelves won't.

It seems like those in minimum wage jobs a few decades ago were not there expecting a living wage. Those jobs were for summer employment, high school drop outs and HS grads just getting started in the blue collar work force. Those that performed well advanced and had the opportunity to have a living wage job.

So what's different today? Fewer folks actually learning a trade or skill that could pay a living wage? Certainly fewer manfacturing jobs, some that had extremely high wages that eventually priced the jobs out of the country (unions take the blame for that). I also suspect that there are a lot of folks that want/expect more money for a no skill job, which isn't likely to happen.

Nevetheless, jobs and the economy aren't tanking under Trump.


Techno

I agree that we need a well trained workforce to keep wages high. Since you are a Trumpie. Tell me what the Donald has done about that.

The real elephant in the room regarding manufacturing jobs is the cost of health care in this country that is attached to every product produced here. Let's see. How does "trumpcare" address that issue?
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9293

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
techno900 wrote:
mac said:
Quote:
But the most ridiculous is the idea that Trump has somehow simplified the tax code.


From Money Magazine:
Quote:

Here's How to Tell Whether the New GOP Tax Plan Will Simplify Your Taxes

By Shaina Mishkin December 20, 2017
The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, the Republican tax plan on the brink of becoming law, could change the way over 27 million U.S. taxpayers file their taxes. Are you one of them?

While the plan might not lead to the postcard-sized tax filings Republicans once touted, it will encourage more taxpayers to opt for the standard deduction. According to the Tax Policy Center’s latest analysis, the number of U.S. taxpayers likely to itemize would fall from 46.5 million — roughly one third of the total — to 19.3 million in 2018, the first year the bill would be in effect.

To understand the dramatic drop, you need to first grasp a few things about how the tax code works. In any given year, taxpayers can choose between claiming the standard deduction or itemizing their deductions.

Those who choose the standard deduction can subtract a pre-set amount of income — for 2017, it’s $6,350 for single filers and $12,700 for those filing jointly — from their gross earnings before income tax rates are applied. Those who choose to itemize, on the other hand, arrive at the amount of income they can subtract by claiming eligible deductions, like those for mortgage interest or state taxes.

While itemizing can save you money, it’s a big hassle, multiplying the number of forms and other paperwork filers need to send to the IRS. Documenting deductions is a big reason the average American taxpayer spends upwards of two work days on their tax return.

The biggest — but not only — reason fewer taxpayers will itemize under Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is a dramatic increase in the standard deduction. The bill would double the value of the provision to $12,000 for single filers and $24,000 for those filing jointly.

The tax plan would also curtail the value of some deductions taxpayers can currently claim, making to itemizing less attractive. For instance, the plan would cap the state and local tax deduction at $10,000 for property or income taxes and would limit deductible mortgage interest to loans worth $750,000 or less, down from the current $1 million cap.

The upshot is that for many taxpayers itemizing would become less attractive, leading additional numbers to claim the new, increased standard deduction instead.

Of course, for taxpayers who already claim the standard deduction, the tax bill won’t impact the way they file. And for those who are affected, the change won’t be permanent since many of the bills individual provisions expire after 2025.


Unless you have small businesses, Techno. Then the new tax code is just a whole bunch more stuff than it was before. We are struggling with the tax implications of the new code in our businesses and coming up with all sorts of issues we cannot deal with and our accountant hasn't been able to figure it out because it was poorly written.

Great...wonderful legislation.


Wrong. A huge class of taxpayers will now be able to file simpler tax forms, leaving H&R Block in the dust.
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