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Whats your set up weigh and what do you weigh?
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grantcantsail



Joined: 09 Sep 2013
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:48 am    Post subject: Whats your set up weigh and what do you weigh? Reply with quote

I ride bikes a lot and pay some attention to weight. I like to keep my bikes under 20lbs- easy to do and still have a sturdy inexpensive rig. Anyway, I can neither ride nor sail this time of year so I weighed some of my (old) windsurfing gear for laughs.

1) Board- 20 lbs. Its an old slalom board. Need to put it on a scale but didn't.
2) Sails- oddly enough every sail I have weighs 10lbs due to an inverse relationship of battens/cambers to size. Gotta work on that .
3) Base-1 1/2 lbs Looong WH.
4) Mast (cheap carbon)-6 lbs
5) Boom (alu)-5 3/4 lbs with a harness lines and uphaul.
6) Fin - forgot to weigh it. Guess 1 lb

So my set up weights 44.25 lbs or so and its all crap. A Hot sails Firelight in 5.3 is 6.4 lbs so that'd be 4 lbs right there....If you know a really light component list it. I know sturdy gear is important - just wondering where people are since all things being equal light gear is easier to deal with.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14310

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was with you right up to "all things being equal light gear is easier to deal with". Sure, a 14 pound sinker is easier to carry to the water than my 34-pound Wayler was, a 1.1 kg carbon mast beats a 10-pound (?) Gray Ampro, in huge sizes carbon booms are lighter than 1-3/8" aluminums, and 8 battens weigh more than four.

But the water, thanks to Archimedes, holds all that stuff up. So until we start throwing everything around and feeling its inertia, its mass, within reason, is relatively irrelevant, especially considering what it would cost to upgrade everything. An extra 10 or 20 pounds has little effect when bombing across a lake and step jibing through broad jibes at each shoreline, and wouldn't reduce the altitude of giant leaps off fat ramps. Light is usually squirrely until inertia starts impacting your more aggressive moves such as aeriaql freestyle; flea-flicking chop hops; frequent, high-g, wall-o-water slashes; and spinning hands-free sail slips ... you know, when you change your name to GrantcanRIP.

It took me years of aggressive highwind Gorge sailing to get good enough to control, let alone prefer 14-pound carbon boards. Until then I resented their stiff, sometimes harsh, ride and their incessant bouncing off any piece of chop. Even now I don't care for them unless they are shaped for a smooth ride even in harsh chop, as many finally are. Again within reason, a sail's (and fin's) feel even in rapid transitions (short of serious freestyle or advanced wave sailing) depends more on its dynamics than its mass.

Things that make gear feel HEAVY to me, and only in rapid transitions (sudden, high-g, aggressive changes in direction), are cams, long fins, big boards with sharp rails, thick boom grips, and those truly heavy epoxy masts I haven't seen in 20 years. The only one of those buzzkillers hampered uniquely by mass is that mast.

I suggest that what you should REALLY weigh is your own personal tradeoffs between dollars and your sailing environment and goals. The more sudden moves you make, the more mass matters, but even then there are many sources of low-cost good equipment.

Mike \m/
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 443

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In general, I agree with Iso... but still, I'm guessing that a whole setup 10 pounds lighter that is controlled by the end of your limbs must feel lighter. I don't think it would modify greatly my intermediate sailing experience however.

I would like to add that sail tuning makes a big difference in how heavy it feels, especially with bigger sails I have a 9.0 sail that is quite tunable. When it is wrongly tuned, you have to fight it and it is downright exhausting to sail. It feels heavy!

Having the right mast for your sail makes a big difference in the same way. I bought a mast for a future 9.5 that is also specked for my 7.5 It is probably close to 1 kg lighter than my previous 7.5 mast. With it, my 7.5 has a slightly different shape and it behaves completely differently. It is more responsive, livelier and feels much lighter. My former mast was supposed to be compatible, but it was clearly not perfect.

This success led me to try a similar upgrade for my 6.0 sail. In that case however, there was no increase in performance, even if the new mast is also lighter. Seems that this former mast was quite well suited.

So in my book of priorities, having the proper mast is way more important than mast weight in order to have a rig that feels light.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14310

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sailboarder wrote:
sail tuning makes a big difference in how heavy it feels, especially with bigger sails I have a 9.0 sail that is quite tunable. When it is wrongly tuned, you have to fight it and it is downright exhausting to sail. It feels heavy!

Excellent comment, one I had glossed over and forgotten. I used to detune my sails when underpowered by letting the downhaul off a couple of cm, thinking it would add power. The result felt like 6 square meters of plywood in both perceived weight and handling. Proper downhaul is usually critical to a sail's feel.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3077
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the original weights are IMO are wildly light, but since no sizes are mentioned , like the sail size, which will vary
all weights in pounds ounces

1. Board Tabou Rocket 135L standard construction, with .5 pound addition of tri fin conversion. 18.1
2.sail Ezzy Cheetah 7.5m 10.328, smallest possible usable sail is a Firelight 6.0 7.275
3.single bolt mast base with Streamlined 30cm carbon extension. 1.63 ( bases are going to be hefty with plastic and metal components)
4. mast 100% carbon Powerex 460 3.96
5.boom AL360 Carbon 5.8 ( carbon frequently is not overly light, its forte is its strength and durability)
6.fins , 2 11cm sides and 28cm rear center 1.268
7. 4 footstraps 8.4oz

weight total 42 pounds

with 6.0 Firelight 39pounds

some of this weight is rather insignificant, those that are on the board , dont really add any swing weight , and may benefit the stability dept.

The amount of carbon is a direct play incursion into your wallet.

The lighter weight boards, are built from hi dollar components,carbon, kevlar and dont translate into always stronger construction
you make your priorities and pay your money .

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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1791
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the 3 posts above, by having an external source for power, as in wind for windsurfing, weight only makes a noticeable difference when first starting to plane, after that, eeh.

Whereas on a bike, all the power comes from the rider, so total weight will make a huge difference.

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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3077
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waterstarting is a lot easier when using light weight components, as are turns

since you dont tire so easily you can sail longer and at a higher level

so more than just starting.

Boards UK magazine tested the light weight versons of boards along side the standard construction, with like models, even used twins as testers, they found their were no significant difference in planing until about 110L boards.

freestyle boards would be exception.

the primary detail advantage was the weight was noticeable where carrying the rig

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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 566

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like light sails if I'm doing anything other than just mowing the lawn. When I'm just moving the lawn (which happens quite often), sail weight does not matter much. I'd rather have extra range from more battens or cams, and extra durability from X ply. I have to admit that I have gotten used to light 75-100% skinnies and carbon booms, though.

For the board, I actually prefer a bit more weight, especially when it's really blowing. My 90 l slalom board likes to fly all over the place in 30+ mph during water starts. I bought the heavier construction for both my 96 l FSW and my 110 l FS boards on purpose. They probably outweigh the slalom board by 3-5 pounds, but that's better. The only board where I like that's it is light is my light-wind slalom board (117 l); there, the light weight does seem to make a difference in getting going.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 903
Location: Oahu

PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another niche area where light weight is really important is slog and ride wavesailing.
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kmf



Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 332

PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I like the feel of a light short board and am willing to pay for them....So take that!

The last time that I carried a glass 90 litre 8' 10" board to the water I tweeked my back and it hurt for a week. You can have all of those logs as far as I am concerned.

KMF
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