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Brian.bigfella@gmail.com



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be clear, it seems that the stretching being discussed here is all pre-activity stretching. It's also important to define "stretching". Dynamic stretching before an activity is pretty much the same as a warm up. It is true that studies have not show pre-activity static stretching to be effective at preventing injury.

However, a program of stretching outside of one's normal activity, in this case windsurfing, has been found to be useful in increasing ROM and thereby reducing risk of injury and enhancing performance.

One issue is that scientific studies tend to look at things that are very specific ie, pre-activity static stretching, and when their conclusions are published it's interpreted as "Stretching is bad."

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/33/4/259.abstract
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's one of dozens of such (often conflicting) studies, it addresses only one aspect of static stretching's effects, and it bypasses the expert discussions and conclusions in scores of studies and authoritative books. IMO, each individual should investigate WAY beyond what I or anyone else posts here, especially if they compete or just want to perform optimally. But for my money, time, effort, experience, concerns, and benefits, I have seen no consensus of evidence here or anywhere else that would change my initial one-liner as strong but neither inviolable nor complete guidance. And why would I change my opinion until other high-level career research professionals change theirs?

One such pro put it this way: Sit upright on the floor, legs and back straight, soles of your feet flat against a stairstep or low heavy object (a wall would work, at a minimum). Lean forward and try to touch your toes. If you can, you're good to go; more flexibility is useless unless some specific sport requirement ACTUALLY demands greater flexibility.

And that still ignores chapters of discussion of static stretching's other neutral or negative results, from the finish line to the ER to under the microscope.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5895

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes looking at the animal world can reveal things for us to see. Many animals, particularly cats, stretch upon waking or rising. It's a totally natural, and it appears to be completely innate. I know myself that it feels good to stretch out upon rising, and often, there's degree of relaxation that occurs too, especially when lying down just before drifting off to sleep. Of course, anything can be over done. Sometimes if I stretch out too hard or long, I can cramp up. Fortunately, our body can speak for itself and teach us reasonable restraint and caution.

Just for the record, I've never made a habit of stretching before sports activities like many do religiously. It's not that I'm against it, it's more that I don't seem to need it, even though I'm rather tightly wound and not too flexible and limber. I will say this though, my primary sports activities in my life have been surfing and windsurfing. Each seem to have offered me the ability to warm up naturally over a relatively short period of time. Maybe some of the pre-exercise process is just getting into the wetsuit, and often with a longer walk down to the beach and along the sandy and/or rocky shoreline.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1365

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too right S.W.

Struggling into full winter wet suit garb, rigging, and 'stomping' down a half mile long beach with board and rig snatching all over the place, is all the stretch and warm up ever needed.

One thing for certain, solid core strength (years of surfing/kayaking) is key to hitting the water running, long standing lower back trouble (tall and build for it) not withstanding.

Don't you just feel that solid bunch of core musculature taking the strain. ( Laughing ) To me, that's key.
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slinky



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 429
Location: Old Saybrook Ct.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr, Thanks for jogging my memory!

I remember Nautilus well.
I started working out the same year I was learning to windsurf, 1985.
I needed more strength and endurance, and because sessions were so few and far between I joined a gym. They had a circuit of Nautilus machines, which were the latest and greatest thecnological breakthrough at that time.

Nautilus promised everything with only three 15 min workouts a week. Fastest way to build muscle and endurance, designed and engeneered by state of the art experts in exercise technology or something to that effect.

My experience with it was at first good, but soon reached a point where I got no stronger, even when working closely with a staff trainer, doing everything exactly as I was supposed to.
Management did their best to get you in and out of the place quickly and I soon got fed up and joined another gym after realizing I was wasting my time and mone

Nautilus was a marketing tool promising club owners increased profits by allowing a gym to handle more volume.

Some things never change.

As Jack Lalanne would say when asked about the newest fads and methods," it's all shtick, marketing, a gimmick"
I've little doubt that the experts would say Jack did everything wrong, but it kept him fit healthy and happy well into his 90's. He died at age 96 recently.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jones' system is simply the tool; it's what we do with it that counts.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 444

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

One such pro put it this way: Sit upright on the floor, legs and back straight, soles of your feet flat against a stairstep or low heavy object (a wall would work, at a minimum). Lean forward and try to touch your toes. If you can, you're good to go; more flexibility is useless unless some specific sport requirement ACTUALLY demands greater flexibility.


This makes a lot of sense. I tried and I can't touch my toes anymore... I'll have to stretch!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concur, but what do you stretch? The restraint could be in the hams, in pelvic tilt, or elsewhere.
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