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Any tips for windsurfing fitness?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14481

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian.bigfella@gmail.com wrote:
isobars wrote:
Brian.bigfella@gmail.com wrote:
In order to increase aerobic capacity you need a couple of long days as well.

Or a quick intervals session. Much less time, much greater benefit, less cardiovascular degradation compared to LSD aerobics.


http://www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm

I agree, and have said so many times regarding endurance athletes whose sport (or snow shoveling or chasing something) doesn't require anaerobic sprints. However, there's that little nagging side effect of extensive prolonged aerobic "runs", beginning at about 20 miles a week at a steady pace at or faster than an 8-minute pace: early demise due to coronary artery calcification. Our bodies are very effective at discarding parts they don't need, including capillaries and heart muscle we're not using, so unless we occasionally demand full capacity, via some form of sprinting, our oxygen transport system atrophies to meet lesser demands. Then when we MUST (or want to) sprint, we can't and/or we even die of a heart attack.

And that's just one of many heightened risks and even surer side effects of performing aerobics to the exclusion of anaerobics. The actual ramp-up and ramp-down of our heart rate at the beginning and end of each sprint, for example, lowers our blood pressure by making our blood vessels more supple. The peak demands of those sprints prompt angiogenesis, the growth of new capillaries around the heart, which tend to maintain blood flow to our heart during a heart attack cause by coronary artery blockage. IOW, wind sprints can save lives.

They also make catching a runaway board and rig on a windy day a piece of cake. My wife and I compete to see who can clear a snowed-in driveway faster. My superior power wins, but she can sure give me a run for the money and the snow is just FLYING even if it's wet ... and our combined age is 138. LSD doesn't do that.
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Brian.bigfella@gmail.com



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Brian.bigfella@gmail.com wrote:
isobars wrote:
Brian.bigfella@gmail.com wrote:
In order to increase aerobic capacity you need a couple of long days as well.

Or a quick intervals session. Much less time, much greater benefit, less cardiovascular degradation compared to LSD aerobics.


http://www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm

I agree, and have said so many times regarding endurance athletes whose sport (or snow shoveling or chasing something) doesn't require anaerobic sprints. However, there's that little nagging side effect of extensive prolonged aerobic "runs", beginning at about 20 miles a week at a steady pace at or faster than an 8-minute pace: early demise due to coronary artery calcification. Our bodies are very effective at discarding parts they don't need, including capillaries and heart muscle we're not using, so unless we occasionally demand full capacity, via some form of sprinting, our oxygen transport system atrophies to meet lesser demands. Then when we MUST (or want to) sprint, we can't and/or we even die of a heart attack.

And that's just one of many heightened risks and even surer side effects of performing aerobics to the exclusion of anaerobics. The actual ramp-up and ramp-down of our heart rate at the beginning and end of each sprint, for example, lowers our blood pressure by making our blood vessels more supple. The peak demands of those sprints prompt angiogenesis, the growth of new capillaries around the heart, which tend to maintain blood flow to our heart during a heart attack cause by coronary artery blockage. IOW, wind sprints can save lives.

They also make catching a runaway board and rig on a windy day a piece of cake.


I'm not a runner, but I generally agree that distance runners end up ruining their legs (I have a sister who needs a new hip in her 40's who will attest to this theory.)

When is comes to biking, swimming, skiing, etc., I agree that intervals are valuable and even necessary for most of us to get to where we want to be. I also think that traditional LSD has benefits that can't be replicated with intervals.

The major issue with HIIT is that most people over-estimate how hard they're working and end up in the "mushy middle". They end up doing a tempo interval pace but not for long enough to have any real positive effects. If someone isn't an experienced, and I would argue competitive, athlete they need to wear a HRM in order to get up to 95% MHR and maintain it for the length of the interval. It's incredibly hard, and telling someone they need to maintain an RPE of 8 or 9 usually doesn't push them hard enough.

As an aside, tempo intervals on a bike are the easiest interval pace to determine. Ride with a slow RPM until your legs start to burn. Back off until the burn doesn't get worse but doesn't go away. You're at tempo pace. Hold for 15-30 minutes.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14481

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian.bigfella@gmail.com wrote:
The major issue with HIIT is that most people over-estimate how hard they're working ... If someone isn't an experienced, and I would argue competitive, athlete they need to wear a HRM in order to get up to 95% MHR and maintain it for the length of the interval. It's incredibly hard, and telling someone they need to maintain an RPE of 8 or 9 usually doesn't push them hard enough.

I've asked the trainers at my gym why they don't encourage, or at least urge awareness of, intervals and Superslow® lifting, especially compared to much of the nearly useless or even harmful stuff so many people do. Their answer generally concurs with your assessment: "We agree with your approach, but the vast majority of gym patrons simply aren't willing to work that hard."

As I mentioned, Reynolds' sources say recent review of the data shows that self-reported exertion level is more reliable than an HRM in evaluating exertion level, but I don't know if that's rue across all fitness levels or just for the well-initiated. The most comforting piece of advice I got from that section of the book was their assessment that we don't have to sprint as hard as I thought. They're recommending minutes at an RPE of 15 out of 20, rather than shorter but unsustainable flat-out sprints. I mix 'em up for max benefit, variety, and better comparison to the demands of my WSing.

When lifting, I've seen people I know at the gym laughing at me as I try my absolute damnedest to complete that last impossible rep. (They weren't being unkind; they simply hadn't seen it before, since most people just wave their arms or legs up and down 10 or 12 times and think they're done.) I just laugh with them and explain that "The only rep that counts is the one you can't finish, in proper form, even with a gun to your head; the rest are just warmups." My old wife huffs and puffs harder during her her Superslow® routine than any man besides me of any age in the whole big gym. Even the big serious iron-pumpers (I use mostly machines for strength routines, for several reasons) just count reps and then stare at the walls between sets.

But it's SO nice to get it over with so quickly and fuhgheddaboutit for 10-15 days, knowing we will be stronger next time because we waited.
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Mulekick84



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Isobars wrote: When lifting, I've seen people I know at the gym laughing at me


Quote:
and, But it's SO nice to get it over with so quickly and fuhgheddaboutit for 10-15 days, knowing we will be stronger next time because we waited.



Trust me, everyone is laughing at you, Isobars!

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14481

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you ever actually contribute to this forum, or even address the topic at all?
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Mulekick84



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly don't feel compelled to make nearly 13,000 posts of "contributions," which seem more about forcing your opinions on everyone in the most argumentative way possible.

As to your sailing fitness, I usually just see you talking on the beach when I go out and talking on the beach when I come in, so I guess you're attempting to overstate that as well. However, obviously your typing stamina surpasses all users here!

Why not just let your sailing do all the talking!



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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, yes ... another case of post envy displacing truth.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3090
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What credentials, degree, school certificate DOES a trainer at a gym or workout center need to acquire to be employeed ? be the owners son most likely

pity that here once again that this thread will turn into POS.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14481

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here http://www.mycbrc.com/?page=52 are some of our gym's trainers. Many others moved on to such places and pursuits as medical school, pro football trainers, orthopedic surgeon's assistant, consultants to area high school and pro sports teams. and much more. Several of them compete in a very wide of amateur and pro sports, including the NFL, regional bodybuilding, and powerlifting. I don't think any owners' offspring are in the lot, I'm certainly not qualified, and the odds are you aren't either.

And whose fault would that be?
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3090
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Do you ever actually contribute to this forum, or even address the topic at all?


this is in part the answer to your last question, who is to blame.

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