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Nelson Mandela
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9491

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, where did you get the information you outlined above?

Regarding 5, as I recollect, Congress would not approve the closure of Guantanamo. No doubt due to Republican obstructionism.

Yet, in spite of the truth, tell me how President Obama single-handedly prevented the closure of Guantanamo.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3478

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler said:
Quote:
Regarding 5, as I recollect, Congress would not approve the closure of Guantanamo. No doubt due to Republican obstructionism.

If it takes an act of Congress to close Guantanamo, and Obama made the statement that "I intend to close Guantanamo" he was just "pissing into the wind" to gain votes knowing that the House would not buy into the closing. Something that most politicians do to get elected, including both parties. One would hope that presidential candidates would be a bit more honest when making statements for political gain.

On the other hand, if he could have closed Guantanamo by executive order, then he was ill informed or naïve about what Guantanamo was all about, or he was just naïve about executive orders. Either way, he looks like a fool.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19294

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
if he could have closed Guantanamo by executive order ...

He can, according to extensive legal opinion. Besides, how often has he let the law or the Constitution stop him from making edicts? He HAS, in some cases, but it's relatively rare.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno,
A pres. can not write laws raise or lower taxes. He can not pass the ACA.
He is in charge of the military and can block laws in very limited way.
Almost all pres speeches and promises can not be done by a pres. alone.
This true all the way down the politics ladder.
When your Congressman told you the things he was going to do, he did not have the authority either , by himself.

Obama has a special standard to meet, of course. He gets no credit, but takes the blame for every move made by any government person repub or not.
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 8601

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He could close Guantanamo tomorrow if he wished. He is Commander in Chief. He can move prisoners of war anywhere he wants to. He could order Holder to charge them. Or, he could have military tribunals and execute "the guilty" if he chose.

He could move all troops out in 24 hours if he wanted to.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9491

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900, when it comes down to an opinion of President Obama, you often close with a nasty, and decidedly unfair, statement. You might think that I don't have any criticisms of Obama, but that wouldn't be true. When it comes down to it, I believe that Obama has been naive, particularly as a candidate leading up to the 2008 election.

Like many, I'm not a supporter of Guantanamo, to include much of what's been done there, but to think that it could be easily closed wasn't realistically in the cards. As a candidate for office, lacking the kind of access to classified information, and not fully understanding the limits of even the presidency, Obama was unquestionably naive and unexperienced. He should have been more cautious and circumspect in how he presented many of his goals, particularly with the kind of unprecedented opposition that he has ultimately faced.

Similarly, Obama was naive to say that with healthcare reform that folks would be able to keep their insurance or their doctors. All too often the insurance industry makes significant changes to policies, revises what is covered by them, and which doctors are covered under their plans. Really, the best anyone can offer is a competitive environment where folks can year to year select a comprehensive plan to suit their needs. But, to say that Obama lied to the American people like many have claimed is unfounded and inappropriate. Of course, that doesn't stop them.

techno900, you can be as ugly as you want with your opinion, but the way that I see it, it's your credibility that is at stake. So, you can call President Obama a fool, a liar, or any other untoward label that you can contrive or dream up, but with me your credibility is totally out the window when you do. There are plenty of haters here, the real question is whether you want to be seen as one of them. There's always lots of room for criticism, and I really don't have a problem with that, but the core issue is whether you can be fair about it.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 11038
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilizing terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists.


funny how racists hate Mandela and for which he endured, the world loves him and you just hate not having your right wing authoritarian governments that sponsor terrorism...

Were you a fan of the racist right wing secret police of south Africa throwing people out the doors of helicopters or was it planes for sport.

Or do you just hate democracy for all? Should America have been in a war to remove stop just taxation without representation?

Hey were the founders of the USA terrorists when they dressed up as Indians and attacked a boat of tea? These founders were not even treated like the blacks at the time were treated in the USA and they were performing by your standards terrorist acts.

Were slave owners terrorists? when they tortured beat and raped their property? How about the slave owner that wrote the book how he forced other slaves to defacte in other slaves mouths as punishment?

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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 11038
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://usslave.blogspot.mx/2012/02/slave-whipping-as-business.html

Whipping was done at these markets, or trader's yards, all the time. People who lived in the city of Richmond would send their slaves here for punishment. When any one wanted a slave whipped he would send a note to that effect with the servant to the trader. Any petty offense on the part of a slave was sufficient to subject the offender to this brutal treatment. Owners who affected culture and refinement preferred to send a servant to the yard for punishment to inflicting it themselves. It saved them trouble, they said, and possibly a slight wear and tear of feeling. For this service the owner was charged a certain sum for each slave, and the earnings of the traders from this source formed a very large part of the profits of his business.


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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: Nelson Mandela Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Unlike our opportunist president, Nelson Mandela unified his country. He forgave the small percentage of bigots for their hatred. He could have strung up the whites like they did in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. Creating famine and death. Instead he took the high road and achieved historic success and respect. He will be remembered forever.

Our president on the other hand along with the new mayor of NY never miss an opportunity to divide the masses. What Obama is doing is dangerous for the future of our great nation. He will never be as beloved as Nelson Mandela.

I believed that if Obama had declared that his election was the end of racism (from a practical standpoint), he'd be as loved as Mandela. If he'd rejected the Hedge funds and crony capitalists, he'd be worshiped. He has missed an amazing opportunity to make health care better, grow our economy and bring all races together.

RIP to one of the greatest world leaders who ever lived. Nelson Mandela


I believe he was wrong in forgiving these people. How did you feel about Sadam? Are you saying the US should have given him a free pass? How about Pol Pot?

should the world ever forgive the Nazis? are the Israelis who still hunt down Nazi criminals to put them on trial wrong, should they just forget and kiss and make up with the right wing Nazis?

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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 11038
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:

Yeah, Besides the largest corporation in the world, Apple, here are some names.

Business people[edit]

Marc Benioff, Chairman and CEO of salesforce.com[20]
Jeffrey Brotman, Founder of Costco[133]
Warren Buffett, CEO of Berkshire Hathaway[134]
Jon Corzine, Former CEO of Goldman Sachs, CEO and Chairman of MF Global, Former Governor of New Jersey and US Senator[20]
Ari Emanuel, CEO of William Morris Endeavor Entertainment[20]
Nathaniel Fick, CEO of the Center for a New American Security, author of One Bullet Away, a New York Times best seller[97]
Bill Gates, Microsoft founder and CEO[135]
David Geffen, Founder of Asylum Records, Geffen Records, and DGC Records; cofounder of DreamWorks SKG[20]
Berry Gordy, Founder of the Motown record label[136]
Steven J. Green, former CEO and Chairman of Samsonite Corporation and United States Ambassador to Singapore[90]
Gary Hirshberg, Chairman, President, and CEO of Stonyfield Farm[137]
Chris Hughes, co-founder of Facebook[138]
James Lassiter[21]
Kevin Liles, Former executive Vice President of Warner Music Group[139]
Michael Lynton, Chairman and CEO of Sony Pictures Entertainment[136]
Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO of DreamWorks Animation[140]
Marissa Mayer, CEO of Yahoo![141]
Mike Medavoy, Chairman and CEO of Phoenix Pictures[136]
Tom Rothman, Chairman and CEO of Fox Filmed Entertainment[21]
Sheryl Sandberg, COO of Facebook[142]
Eric Schmidt, former CEO of Google[143]
Russell Simmons, Cofounder of Def Jam[139]
James Sinegal, Founder and former CEO of Costco[144]
George Soros, founder of Soros Fund Management[145]

Besides the Democrats being far wealthier in Congress, and just about every Hollywood actor, he is in the pocket of most of the top 10 net worth people and companies in the US.


if you are going to post such a stupid list, back it up. Show us the overly partisan things these rich have done like Buffet that is liberal, Like Steve Jobs, like Gates.

Soros I will give him to the liberal politically partisan. He also was a huge funder of things in Russia to make that wall fall down.

As far as right wingers we have ultra partisan huge donators like the trust fund kids Olin foundation, the hunts, coors, Koch brothers, walmart kids,

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