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Nelson Mandela
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5945
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Bard says:

Quote:
Your hate speech is beyond belief Mac.


Bard--if people consistently and repeatedly tell you that your accusations against Obama are racially insensitive if not clearly bigoted--one thing you might need to contemplate. They're speaking the truth.


"People", as in 100's, or just a few of libs here playing a worn out card?

A classic attempt at trying to make mud stick.
Good luck with that.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 13136
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just love the way the right honors Mandela. A series of slams, first of Obama, and then of Mandela. But if a "liberal" states that it is racially insensitive, that can't possibly be true.

Obviously nobody from the right pays attention to the ancient philosophers. Conservatism only goes back to slavery, or perhaps to Saint Joe McCarthy. They missed this one.

Quote:
The unexamined life is not worth living.
Socrates, in Plato
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2721

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always liked "Live it or live with it"

Firesign Theater

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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9496

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900,

How easy you forget when it's inconvenient. As I recollect, you have stated that President Obama lied to the American people. If I'm wrong about that, there's no question that most of your right wing cohorts here have repeated it often here. How easily it rolls off the lips of Republican and those in the right wing media these days. In fact, one dumb ass Republican representative essentially called Obama a lair in front of the nation as the president was addressing Congress.

With regard to my statement about Obama haters, both in this thread and others, I'm talking about the kind of negative speech that constitutes hate in my book. Think about it for a minute. Have I actually accused any of you Obama haters of hating him for being black? Although I believe that is at the very heart of it for many, that's not the way that I have used it. As I see it, the way that many of you right wing Republicans voice your mind about Obama displays your hate for him and what he represents. I could easy say that you guys hate Democrats and the liberal left, and I wouldn't be wrong about that. The one thing that I think that you forget, I'm listening to what you guys are saying, and judge you by it. Why not be honest and man up to the hateful disdain that you folks continually drum up? It's the truth.

I don't think many of you realize just how close we could have been to closing Guantanamo. But again, you conveniently forget the facts. In early 2009, the Democrats controlled both the Senate and the House of Representatives. If it wasn't for Senator Kennedy's illness and absence, the Democrats in the Senate would have had a filibuster proof majority to accomplish many things, including the closing Guantanamo. Unfortunately, the super majority only existed for a few months. By the time the Guantanamo issue came up for a vote, they had the majority, but not 60 the votes needed to defeat the Republican minority.

Lastly, there's this quote from you.

"I despise any and all politicians that make bogus promises solely for political gain, period."

Repeatedly, I have raised the issue of Republicans running for office in 2010 spouting their campaign promise to work for American jobs. What have they done with their majority in the House? Absolutely nothing. Nothing! None of you on the right have had the balls to even come to table and acknowledge that. Instead, you predictably blame President Obama, and forget that he actually created jobs through his approval of the initial stimulus, and his administration has attempted to create more jobs and opportunity through proposals for further stimulus. The way that I see it, your words above are empty. You've had no criticism for the "do nothing" Republicans. None. If the truth was told, I have to think that you blindly support the blatant across the board obstructionism that the Republicans offered, even at the expense of American jobs.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 13136
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno--you keep ascribing motives and dialogue to people that are essentially made up, and then failing to acknowledge the problems with your own. Take this for example:

Quote:
What was Obama's motive in saying he will close Guantanamo? Clearly political gain


Obama proposed to close Guantanamo I believe as a matter of principle. I think he is a far more principled person than the last two Presidents, knows law and knows that the treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo was in violation of the Geneva Convention. So the Republicans blocked him in various ways. This is an example of those fake facts that you conservatives keep coming up with. You alone, or perhaps all conservatives, can invent motives for Obama's rationale, ascribe them to political gain rather than principle, and then hate him for it. Despise was your word.

Your second sortie was alleging that he unilaterally had the power to close Guantanamo. You've conveniently ignored the role of Republicans in preventing the closure, and their insistence, in effect, with extra-legal detentions. To refresh your memory as to what happened in the real world while you were living in the bubble where all problems are Obama's fault:


from 2009:

Quote:
Republicans are turning up the heat on the Obama administration in a bid to scramble his plan to close the Guantanamo Bay detention center and relocate its prisoners by January 2010.

Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., planned to hold a press conference Wednesday to discuss his bill to block funding for the release of any Guantanamo prisoners into the United States.

Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., circulated a stinging letter this week that he wrote to Attorney General Eric Holder in which he questioned what "legal authority" the administration has to admit dangerous detainees into the U.S.


From 2013:

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) Rebuffing President Barack Obama's latest plea, House Republicans on Monday proposed keeping open the military-run prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, by barring the administration from transferring its terror suspects to the United States or a foreign country such as Yemen.

The provisions dealing with the fate of the remaining 166 prisoners are part of a defense policy bill drafted by Armed Services Committee Chairman Howard P. "Buck" McKeon, R-Calif. The chairman released the bill Monday, two days before Republicans and Democrats on the committee will vote on it.


While the Constitution and the events of the last fifty years accord the President great defference in matters of national security, Congress retains authority over funding. If they refuse funding, he cannot lightly go ahead. He did stop, again as a matter of principle, interrogation techniques that violated the Geneva Convention. Measures such as water boarding, considered by most civilized nations to be torture. If your principles oppose that behavior then I pity you for holding them.

Your next sally was again to hate on all politicians for making bogus promises for political gain. You betray your ignorance of history with this comment. Many historical studies have analyzed Presidents of both parties, and have concluded that the policies they propose are essentially the same policies that they campaigned on. Doesn't depend on party. If the President is dealing with reasonable opposition he must make compromises. If he is dealing with wing-nut Tea Party folks, we can all see he was naive to expect reasonable opposition.

Your disapproval, of course, seems selective. Obama pulled off the ACA, starting with essentially a Republican and market based framework--despite entrenched opposition. That fulfilled a campaign promise, and he was reelected, either because of, or despite, that success. As with all of the right, you are unwilling to suggest anything specific that would be better. But you then describe the successful politics of the right in blocking popular reforms like immigration reform, background checks on gun purchase, and modernization of the tax code, as bogus promises--making him in your flawed logic a liar. Most who would look at history would instead find an unprecedented tyranny of the minority.

I don't remember any comments from you, or the rest of the right, objecting to the systematic lying of the Bush Administration in beating the war drums for Iraq--the worst foreign policy disaster in the history of this country. Perhaps you don't remember how Scooter Libby and Dick Cheney systematically lied, and then outed those brave enough to tell the truth:

Quote:
NBC News and news services
updated 3/6/2007 9:18:07 PM ET
Print Font:
WASHINGTON Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, was convicted Tuesday of lying and obstructing a leak investigation that reached into the highest levels of the Bush administration.
Libby is the highest-ranking White House official to be convicted of a felony since the Iran-Contra scandal of the mid-1980s. The case brought new attention to the Bush administration's much-criticized handling of weapons of mass destruction intelligence in the run-up to the Iraq war.
The verdict culminated a nearly four-year investigation into how CIA official Valerie Plame's name was leaked to reporters in 2003. The trial revealed that top members of the administration were eager to discredit Plame's husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who accused the administration of doctoring prewar intelligence on Iraq.
Libby, who was once Cheney's most trusted adviser and an assistant to President Bush, was expressionless as the jury verdict was announced on the 10th day of deliberations. His wife, Harriet Grant, choked out a sob and lowered her head.


If you think that Libby did that on anything other than the express direction of Cheney, I will sell you a bridge over the Columbia River. You can collect the tolls at your leisure.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The right's response to Mandella passing is not much different to the response from the left when Thatcher died just a bit more subdued from the right.
The left gets the added benefit of playing the race card on this one however.
Kinda like ANY criticism of Obongo.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 11056
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
The right's response to Mandella passing is not much different to the response from the left when Thatcher died just a bit more subdued from the right.
The left gets the added benefit of playing the race card on this one however.
Kinda like ANY criticism of Obongo.


Thatcher was no hero to the world by any means. She was just another right wing bought politician, she showed no hero attributes that I ever saw. Show us where the world puts her in the ranks of a Mandela.

Yes as we know the right wing in this country keep and foster the hate of the racists in their party. In fact they actively go after the vote of the racists in their party.... As long as the right wing party actively solicits the racists why would anyone say the entire right wing party is not racists supporters and rad racists. again in one state alone about 40-50 percent of the self identified conservatives said they believe interracial marriage shoud be an offense with jail time, this was not just asking if they disagreed, this was GO TO JAIL. that is what the right wing party stands for....

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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 13136
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BB--your personal commitment to perpetuating racism is ably demonstrated by your comment:

Quote:
Kinda like ANY criticism of Obongo


You disgust me.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The left somehow gets away antisemitism with constant attacks on Jews and Israel, but somehow that's not racism.
If a black person strays from the DNC plantation they are destroyed by the left, ala Clarence Thomas, Alan West, etc... etc...
Sorry you don't get to be the party of civil rights, look back not that long ago to the South in the 60's that was all democrats standing for apartheid in America. Idea
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1500

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama's eulogy for Mandela made me proud of my host nation. Well done.
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