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beaglebuddy
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120
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 Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:17 am Post subject: |
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India, Pakistan, Israel, North Korea. None of these countries export terrorism to any significant degree. Pakistan has a problem with India, there has been some support of terrorism from Pakistan but it's all related to a small regional conflict. Even North Korea for all their craziness has not been a significant supporter of terrorism, it was thought they were supplying Iran but it turns out to be China.
Iran however... and they do not believe in mutually assured destruction. |
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LHDR
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 528
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | | LHDR wrote: | | It amazes how people with nearly zero insight have confidence to be critical of this deal. Like others have pointed out, the fact that German and British (conservative) administrations are part of this deal suggests that Obama is on the side of reason. |
Here are just a FEW of the downsides to this travesty [..].
They can summarily stall any onsite inspection they wish for 24 days.
They have flatly stated that they will allow no inspections of ANY site they choose to call a "military base".
The document's timetables and even its inspection and compliance requirements are very vague, much more like wishes than a binding contract. |
I can't judge for myself how significantly inspections are affected by this, and whether issues like this are typical in similar agreements. You may.
But I suspect that you are raising some good points and that the negotiating parties are aware of them. So, at the end of the day, I have to go with the opinion of those who, by my best judgement, are competent and well-meaning and make sense in general terms (for example, the argument that fairly strong economic sanctions over an extended period of time have failed to prevent Iran from moving towards a bomb, that military options are poor, that a less confrontational approach may change Iran for the better).
| isobars wrote: | Iran, the biggest state sponsor of terrorism on the planet, gets scores of billions of dollars of frozen assets returned to them by the U.S..
They will now reap $100,000,00 every day in oil revenues FOR that terrorism, much of it from the U.S. In case it's not obvious, that will effectively make the United States one of the world's leading state sponsors of global terrorism. |
On a side note, and perhaps to put in perspective the notion of essentially giving billions of dollars to a sponsor of terrorism. Saudi Arabia is a prime sponsor of radical Islam, yet no sanctions are in place. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| LHDR wrote: | I can't judge for myself how significantly inspections are affected by this, and whether issues like this are typical in similar agreements. You may.
But I suspect that you are raising some good points and that the negotiating parties are aware of them. So, at the end of the day, I have to go with the opinion of those who, by my best judgement, are competent and well-meaning and make sense in general terms (for example, the argument that fairly strong economic sanctions over an extended period of time have failed to prevent Iran from moving towards a bomb, that military options are poor, that a less confrontational approach may change Iran for the better). |
Back up there, pardner. It's not *I* making these judgements; I'm just parroting world-class experts -- not journalists -- whose careers and in many cases very lives have depended on being right about such matters. The sanctions were crushing Iran. Just one example among many: their inflation runs 35% and climbing directly due to those sanctions.
Yes, Obama is aware of these issues; these experts, including his own military and civilian top brass, have pounded them into him for years. The problem is clearly that his only concerns are his short-term legacy and his ego, both of which throw the country, its populace, and the free world under the freight train in return for those imaginary Whirled Peas. Both Cuba and Iran got everything the Castros and the Ayatolla wanted -- i.e., they WON -- and we got nothing in return except for the kudos Obama falsely claims for his own legacy. Again, not my opinion; the opinion of virtually every international relations analyst who has opined on these issues.
I've watched the anchors on BSNBC and their likes praise these deals. It turns my stomach, scares the hell out of me, makes me glad I'm likely to die within a few years, leaves me hoping my wife doesn't live long enough to face the consequences of this lopsided, shortsighted, ego-driven deal with the devil, and reinforces our decision 48 years go not to have kids.
Last edited by isobars on Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| LHDR wrote: | | the fact that German and British (conservative) administrations are part of this deal suggests that Obama is on the side of reason ...Saudi Arabia is a prime sponsor of radical Islam, yet no sanctions are in place. |
Your legitimate concerns/examples of Germany, the UK, and Saudi Arabia are addressed in an article by Pulitzer Prize winning Middle East journalist Karen House (a racist, no doubt, according to mac) in today's WSJ, titled "Obama pours gas on the Mideast fire". The article will be picked up shortly by sites that don't require a subscription or reprint permission; watch for it. In one sentence, Saudi Arabia is an ally [no comment] and Europe is selling its soul to the devil in a desperate attempt to save the EU from fiscal collapse ... at the expense of Israel and ultimately the free world. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17748
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Of course, nothing that actually deals with the facts, how close Iran was to the bomb, or the details of the deal. Fear is the word. Thinking is not allowed. |
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pueno
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| beaglebuddy wrote: |
Moral relativism, the keystone of leftist ideology. |
Utter, blinding stupidity, the cornerstone of conservative idiotology. . . . 
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17748
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course, to justify his uninformed position, BB argued that Pakistan doesn't export terrorism. Truly laughable. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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"In one sentence, Saudi Arabia is an ally [no comment]..."
Perhaps isobars has forgotten that Saudi Arabia recently commented on the possibility of developing their own nuclear weapon capability. I was surprised that no one, particularly those on the right, came out and condemned such a path, and staunchly committed to an absolute hardline stance against Saudi Arabia gaining nuclear weapons.
Anyone that doesn't question Saudi Arabia's allegiance to the US and other western powers, isn't paying attention to the undercurrents in the Middle East. We should remember that Saudi Arabia isn't anywhere close to being a democratic nation, and they practice a very radical and restrictive version of Islam. Sure, they've got a lot of oil, and that has played out well for us in the past, but it would be foolish to think that things couldn't change against us, and particularly concerning their attitude towards Israel. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| beaglebuddy wrote: | OK I get it, we are terrorists, everyone is a terrorist, can't define terrorism therefore Iran is not a terrorist nation.
Moral relativism, the keystone of leftist ideology. |
How about terrorism: deliberately targeting civilians.
How about terrorism: vowing openly and credibly to erase Israel from the globe.
How about terrorism: religious genocide.
How about terrorism: machine-gunning schoolgirls running out of the schoolhouse the terrorists set ablaze for that purpose.
How about terrorism: kidnapping hundreds of girls just to rape them and throw them into the sex slave trade.
How about terrorism: publicly beheading journalists, coworkers, Christians, less-radical Muslims, puppy dogs, and anyone else who they don't like?
Anyone who considers those things normal American traits should be brought to the attention of the FBI ASAP. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| London's left-leaning "Economist" magazine appraised the Iran deal as very shaky but with some hope, based on the assumption that lightly-armed Iran is trustworthy, with the final outcome TBD in a decade or so. I suspect cartoonist Daryl Cagle settles that question much sooner in today's local left wing paper. His "Iran Deal" cartoon shows Obama shaking hands with the Ayatolla. Obama's thinking, "An opportunity for Iran to join the community of nations". The Ayatolla's thinking, "Kill the Jews". |
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