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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:44 pm Post subject: Afghanistan and the war on terror |
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I am reading an interesting book which deals directly with Afghanistan, among other countries, titled "Thieves of State", by Sarah Chayes. With a new general just up for confirmation, and surges by the Taliban, it makes sense to review the bidding to date and the prospects for the future.
Perhaps I suffer a bit from the same American myopia that infects the neo-cons, that is, a tendency to project our culture and governance onto other countries. I was rather pleased and excited about the election of Karzai, although I was suspicious of the invasion of Afghanistan. I remember speaking to a local sailor and windsurfer, from Afghanistan, who dismissed Karzai as a corrupt American puppet.
Sarah Chayes is a former NPR correspondent who spent ten years in Afghanistan. She abandoned her journalism career to try to make a difference in Afghanistan after the invasion, initially spending two years working for an NGO under Karzai's older brother, Qayum. She was hired in 2009 by ISAF General David McKiernan to work on his staff, and was there when Stanley McChrystal took over. She says she was fooled by Qayum for a while, but came to understand him as deeply corrupt.
Chayes' thesis is that Afghanistan, and a number of other countries like Egypt, Nigeria and Uzbekistan, are "ruled" by criminal conspiracies who have little or no interest in governance, but are organized to extract money and protect those doing the extraction. She provides ample evidence to show corruption in these countries, for example the supposed contract to build kishmish khanas, structures for drying grapes into raisins. Few of the structures were built, and the workers were cheated, but she cites a source for the Karzai's taking in $100,000 a month. Her argument is that the US acceptance of corruption, which is evident to most Afghanistans, and particularly the CIA's use of known criminals as sources, undermines all of our security effort. She makes a similar case for a number of different countries. She identifies this as a key element in sustaining support for religious fanatics, or those who claim to be, as the common folk in these countries yearn for leadership that is not criminal in nature.
I don't completely buy this argument applied to Afghanistan; I think the country suffers in large part from the hangover of the long proxy war between the US and the USSR. That war, and all wars, destroyed huge parts of civil institutions, particularly schools and medical facilities, and advanced the interests of warlords, who represented perhaps the only remaining economic center. Chayes makes the case that the traditional agricultural economy in Afghanistan is more robust than the current one based on opium poppy cultivation--but very susceptible to violence, lack of access to credit, and extortion.
Where I think Chayes insight is particularly valuable is an area where progressives and authoritarians have long differed--the ability of the military to resolve institutional and political problems. The rigid hierarchy of the military, and the relatively rapid turn over of senior commanders meant that relationships with counterparts in Afghanistan were also hierarchical and of shorter duration. If the counterparts of the military commanders were more interested in extracting money and protecting their network of thieves, this structure enabled them to limit the contacts between senior military personnel and those not actually involved in corruption. Add in the CIA willingness to cultivate thieves, and to help them eliminate their competition in the drug networks, and you begin to see some of the reasons for the ongoing attraction of the Taliban as an alternative.
Thoughtful comments welcomed, but not entirely expected. |
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MalibuGuru
Joined: 11 Nov 1993 Posts: 9300
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Those countries all suffer from being Islamic... And no, Islam is not a race. It is a failed culture that has no place in our country in it's radical form. Even the moderates share no cultural similarities with us.
I do agree that the Christians, gay Muslims and liberal atheists could coexist in America though. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting timing with this new thread, considering that the Obama administration has now said that withdrawing from A'stan will now be delayed as to not create another Iraq debacle, and to now press harder in Libya against ISIS with more U.S. help. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Sigh. |
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beaglebuddy
Joined: 10 Feb 2012 Posts: 1120
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Afghanistan is a tribal region ruled by warlords, not really a nation. The people don't identify as being part of a nation but rather their allegiances are with their tribe. Then on top of all that they are muslims which is a problem in itself.
Not sure if we should just keep flying drones and dropping bombs on them, nuke them all or leave the place entirely. One thing is certain however, we should never allow any of these 7th century animals into our country. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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I did say:
Quote: | Thoughtful comments welcomed, but not entirely expected. |
Conservatives are now 0 for 3. No bigoted comment from beagle could surprise anyone. |
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