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Drugs and the drug war
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5087

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:20 pm    Post subject: Drugs and the drug war Reply with quote

with the new year, legalization of pot experiments have begun in Washington and California. It makes sense to have a separate thread for comment on drug laws and enforcement.

I am not a great fan of legalization. I get a little nervous when I am riding my bicycle on the road and a car goes by in a cloud of marijuana smoke. Not everyone knows that alcohol use and abuse went down substantially during prohibition. So there is little doubt in my mind that legalization will result in increased use of marijuana. I also know that current strains of marijuana are much stronger than those of my youth, and pose greater risk to users under 18.

At the same time, it is crystal clear that the war on drugs has been lost, and there is no scenario in which it can be won. The most optimistic estimates are that we intercept 10% of the drugs headed for this country, and the violence and corruption associated with the illegal drug trade may be worse than the problems of drug abuse. Interesting arcile in the current New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/01/06/140106fa_fact_schwartz

We've spent many billions, yet drugs are cheaper and there are more users--and more violence, particularly in Mexico and Honduras. It would be interesting to hear some predictions from CB about what is in store in Colorado, and then follow it up in a year or so and see how the legalization experiment is proceeding.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1615
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll chime in on this Very Happy

Illegality adds to the mystique, there will be an increase but I think it will level off sometime after total decriminalization. But as I said on another thread, adults only, gotta be 21 to smoke it.

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I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13998

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't care whether a guy is 21 or 51, or whether he's on alcohol, pot, or a meth/cocaine/heroin/LSD/antifreeze cocktail: if he shows up at work impaired, he's fired from my hypothetical company. I'm paying for 100% of his brain, not 80% 0r 30%, and my business relies on his judgment.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2619

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
I'll chime in on this Very Happy

Illegality adds to the mystique, there will be an increase but I think it will level off sometime after total decriminalization. But as I said on another thread, adults only, gotta be 21 to smoke it.

Would you impose regulations to control the sale and use, and maybe model those regulations on the control of sales and use of alcohol?
.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3315

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Amsterdam, decrimilalization brought a reduction in hard drug use as users slipped over into something legal, then lost interest in pot after a while.
They bust you heavy for anything underage with the support of nearly everybody.
Saved a fortune in tax money spent on judges and jails.

The pot laws of the past could be justified. They were a well intended experiment that failed utterly and turned many our youth into criminals who never recovered from doing hard prison time.

No matter what you think of pot, what do you think of doing things that clearly do not work?
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1615
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
nw30 wrote:
I'll chime in on this Very Happy

Illegality adds to the mystique, there will be an increase but I think it will level off sometime after total decriminalization. But as I said on another thread, adults only, gotta be 21 to smoke it.

Would you impose regulations to control the sale and use, and maybe model those regulations on the control of sales and use of alcohol?
.

Yep, and currently in Colorado they are having a problem with supply, the shops are running out. Their current law says that the pot shops have to supply their own product, ie., they have to grow it themselves.
That is a big part of the supply problem, it is no different than telling the liqueur stores that they have to distill their own liqueur.
That needs to be fixed.

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I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3315

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is the Dutch model. Smuggling is heavy punishment so they must grow.
The Dutch have a big greenhouse industry so they formed partnerships with the coffee shops that sold weed.
They can grow year round and keep it locked up against theft.
Not too different than microbreweries in the US. Esp in Colorado.
The criminals were left out of the supply chain.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2619

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:

Yep, and currently in Colorado they are having a problem with supply, the shops are running out. Their current law says that the pot shops have to supply their own product, ie., they have to grow it themselves.
That is a big part of the supply problem, it is no different than telling the liqueur stores that they have to distill their own liqueur.
That needs to be fixed.

I agree. However, it DOES encourage the growth of small business.

It's not much different than microbreweries producing their own beer and ale for consumption on premises. Big investment in the manufacturing infrastructure.

It takes money to be in business.
.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13998

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
in Colorado (and WA) they are having a problem ...

including more kids smoking pot and more DUI.

And this S U R P R I S E S them!
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1394

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
nw30 wrote:
in Colorado (and WA) they are having a problem ...

including more kids smoking pot and more DUI.

And this S U R P R I S E S them!


Wow, after 7 days into 2014, ISO has already compiled meaningful statistics about the impact the new pot laws have on DUI in Colorado! Let's see them!

And, let's also see where it was suggested that driving under the influence or dispensing pot to minors (aka "kids") be made legal.

No? Bullshitting again, perhaps? No New Year's resolution to keep?

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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