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How to deal with spiraling political unrest in the world
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
The war in Belize is between us and the Guats who claim Belize and have staged two invasions and repeated border issues.
The civil war internal to Guatemala, nothing to do with Belize, went on for twenty years.

The civil war in Nicaragua is finally over.
The civil war in Columbia is still on.
The war over the Falklands is still simmering with England and Argentina.
The one in Peru is a lot less.
Wait -this is impossible.all war is caused by Muslims.

BB would you like to know why all these wars as well as 911 and terrorism is actually caused by conservatives like yourself? As opposed to mainstream conservatives?

This is the extent of the "war" between Guatamala and Belize;
On 21st January 1958, the Hampshires, at strength of one company, received news that a small force from Guatemala had crossed the border and raised the Guatemalan flag on British territory. A platoon was sent out, located the intruders and exchanged some fire with them. The intruders were actually Belize Freedom Fighters who had no doubt been aided by Guatemala and encouraged, but were badly organized and ineffective. Some twenty members of this Belize Liberation Army were rounded up and sent for trial.
Not ALL wars are caused by Muslims but in the last 20 or 30 years due to the rise in islamic fundamentalism about 99% are.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2768

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
Over the years I have often wondered what would happen when and if the muslim terrorists sneak bomb us with a nuke and after 9/11 I realized that the liberals would blame the United States Government and peoples and basically say we brought it on ourselves and deserved it. Sad

If that's what you wondered and that's what you realized, then that simply shows just how twisted and demented you are.

After all, look who's blaming everything on the US Government now! (Hint: It's not the liberals. Ask Mikey, ask NW, ask BB who's to blame... the answer always starts with "O.")
.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5581

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case anyone wonders why I refer to the far right as "troglodytes", you can use this as exhibit A in developing an understanding:

Quote:
Not ALL wars are caused by Muslims but in the last 20 or 30 years due to the rise in islamic fundamentalism about 99% are.


The combination of such bigotry with the lack of disapproval from the rest of the righties makes my case. Such bigotry should be shunned and publicly repudiated at every opportunity--from across the political spectrum.

Of course, such bigotry is also the product of profound ignorance. There is no question that there are sects within Islam that are radical and espouse violence. Just as there are sects in America who rationalize violence against abortion doctors. It is attributing this world view to a religion, and ignoring all other aspects of culture, where determined ignorance turns a tiny fact into bigotry.

Nuance and complexity seem to bewilder knuckledraggers like Beagleboy. Numerous root causes for violence throughout the world, and in the Middle East and Northern Africa have been identified. Most fundamentally, strife cannot be seen outside the prism of tribalism--the same rigidity of world view that defines a significant part of the red state blue state conflict in America. Some of the most violent wars have played out outside of Islam--the dissolution of Yugoslavia, the slaughter of Tutsi's by Hutu's in Ruwanda. That certainly persists in the Middle East, as even without the United States present as a scapegoat, tribal warfare rages between Shiites and Sunnis.

To ignore the tribal nature of the battle over a Palestinian State and attribute the cause to religion is folly. You can see the same tribalism in the common adoption of the Israel point of view by evangelical congregations--based on their belief in the rapture.

Other causes have been identified, and Samuel Huntington predicted the clash of the West and the Muslim world in his seminal book, "The Clash of Civilizations" http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/48950/samuel-p-huntington/the-clash-of-civilizations Huntington identified the youth in the Muslim world--the root cause of much violence in the world, including the United States--as well as the alienating nature of modernity as societies move from rural and tribal-based to urban.

It would be just as foolish view the clashes in the Middle East and Africa solely through a Marxist lens as it is to view it through a religious lens. Yet ignorance is ultimately the root cause of such bigotry--whether your religion is Muslim-hating Christianity or Marxism.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso still reading my posts, but that's impossible.
BB still thinks war is caused by Muslims. That's impossible too.
NW knows that a when a large group of our people hate any national group, that is a prime cause of war so it upset him to think he is a part of that.
The whole idea that 20% of Republicans agree with Iran and terrorists that America is ruled by Satan is scary isn't it?

The war between American conservatives and Muslim conservatives is not something any of these guys can think about without realizing the part they play in it.
Liberals all over the world want these folks to stop but the reactions above are the same in the Muslim world when their liberals ask their conservatives to stop fighting.

The war of terror will only end when these main players wise up.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BB I get it .you look things like that up and with those small facts make huge conclusions.
Last border skirmish was last year. Last big attack was stymied by a an earthquake some years ago.
I sometimes teach Belize history. Want to compete on the facts?
How about every other war in Latin America just to start.
Were they all caused by Muslims or did they not exist?
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1919
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
Iso still reading my posts, but that's impossible.
BB still thinks war is caused by Muslims. That's impossible too.
NW knows that a when a large group of our people hate any national group, that is a prime cause of war so it upset him to think he is a part of that.
The whole idea that 20% of Republicans agree with Iran and terrorists that America is ruled by Satan is scary isn't it?

The war between American conservatives and Muslim conservatives is not something any of these guys can think about without realizing the part they play in it.
Liberals all over the world want these folks to stop but the reactions above are the same in the Muslim world when their liberals ask their conservatives to stop fighting.

The war of terror will only end when these main players wise up.

Lets extend your line of logic.
So according to you, there probably isn't any liberals in the military, nothing but conservatives that enjoy war, and the war on terror is just the ticket they need to go on their joy ride.
Then your next step, everybody out of the pool!!! Stop the war on terror now!!!
Okay our entire military stands down and proclaim that the war on terror no longer exists, peace in the valley is finally achieved!
Oh really?
So the radical muslims are content to go back to tending their poppy fields.
Oh really?
No more reason for "death to all infidels", because the great satan (USA) has been beaten back. Which also means that the Koran no longer has to be interpreted in the radical ways that the radicals do.
Oh really?

You've got a hell of a lot of faith with the radical muslims out there.
Do you really think it's all that simple? Shocked

_________________
I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14632

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do we know?
Al Qaeda and its many clones are stronger now than they were on 9/11/01, despite their decimation during the Afghanistan war.
The Koran still tells them to convert, enslave, or kill all non-believers.
Their offensive weapons are growing in number and sophistication.
Their territory and training camps are expanding dramatically, especially since Obama gave Iraq back to them ... on a timetable, no less.
Obama sez they're on the run, and many idiots actually believe that.
Kerry's/Obama's total capitulation to Iran achieves absolutely nothing to prevent them from going nuclear within two months of their leaders' OK even if they abide by the agreement ...
Which no one believes they will.
Every point Obama and Kerry claims as a concession by Iran is totally meaningless, but you aren't getting that from BSNBC and I'm not going to type it out for you here. You'll have to change channels to get the verified facts opposing or neutralizing each end zone dance. IOW, we got hosed.
Al Qaeda and its clones have cells in at least 100 nations ... more than half the countries in the world.
An oft-repeated plank of Hillary's 2008 platform in her debates with Obama was her vow to send in troops to get those terrorists (i.e., go to war with those countries).
Yeah, SURE! She wouldn't even help defend Benghazi even as the Red Cross and the U.K. wisely ran for the hills partly because there were six terrorist training camps in Benghazi alone.
The vast majority of middle-eastern Muslims polled about whether they support radical Islam said, in different ways, "HELL, yes."
Since Snowden revealed NSA's worldwide monitoring capabilities, Al Qaeda, et.al. have dropped off the radar. They are virtually silent now, apparently using couriers and/or more inventive ways to communicate.
Those capabilities had stopped 50 particularly deadly attacks, 10 in the U.S.
No mas. Until we find new ways to listen and to map their communication nodes, we're all but blind. Thank you Snowden, and thank the idiot media for revealing these extremely sensitive and heavily watchdogged methods to the world ... the most dangerous national security blows in U.S. history. I agree with military historian Ralph Peters that Snowden's next stop should be "unprintable and medieval".

Here's the litmus test: What would happen if we ignore radical Islam? What would happen if they fuhgheddabout us? Which is a safer alternative?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with your assessment.That is a truly epic string of dumb ideas you thought of without a doubt.
It has nothing to do with me , of course. You thought them up all by yourself.

The large group of people who hate Muslims in this country are not going to be fondly remembered when this is all over. They will be dismissed as a part of the problem that finally had to be solved.

The same situation will face liberals in Muslim countries in dealing with hate filled conservatives, esp. religious ones who have entered their governments.

Same problem those of us who understand this aspect of terrorism have here in the States.
We have increasing numbers of religious hardcore who don't like Muslims in our government. Folks who want the War of Conservatives to be ended are opposed by all the religious politicians in both religions.

No single group helps these folks more than the army of hate with millions on both sides.
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youwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 736
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://open.salon.com/blog/je_robertson/2009/06/02/cheney_admits_to_lying_about_iraq-911_connection_sort_of

Former vice president Dick Cheney told a gathering at the National Press Club on Monday that Saddam Hussein had no ties to al Qaeda and no link to the attacks of 11 September 2001. He had previously been a committed proponent of intelligence reports (never published) he claimed demonstrated such a link.

According to a book by Washington Post investigative reporter Barton Gellman, former Republican House leader Dick Armey, who was skeptical of the need to invade Iraq, at the outset, has said he changed his mind when Cheney, then vice president, told him in no uncertain terms "that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had direct personal ties to al-Qaeda terrorists and was making rapid progress toward a suitcase nuclear weapon".

As reported by the Washington Post:

Cheney's assertions, described by former House majority leader Richard K. Armey (Tex.), came in a highly classified one-on-one briefing in Room H-208, the vice president's hideaway office in the Capitol. The threat Cheney described went far beyond public statements that have been criticized for relying on "cherry-picked" intelligence of unknown reliability. There was no intelligence to support the vice president's private assertions, Gellman reports, and they "crossed so far beyond the known universe of fact that they were simply without foundation."
In fact, for several years, Dick Cheney was the most vehement supporter of the theory that Saddam Hussein might have had links to the attacks. While he tended to prefer public statements alleging a "direct link" or "secret meeting in Prague", Cheney was persistent, until long after the invasion of Iraq, about his assertion that Iraq was involved in helping al Qaeda to fund and plan its attacks. In 2004, CNN reported:
Vice President Dick Cheney said Thursday the evidence is "overwhelming" that al Qaeda had a relationship with Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq, and he said media reports suggesting that the 9/11 commission has reached a contradictory conclusion were "irresponsible."
"There clearly was a relationship. It's been testified to. The evidence is overwhelming," Cheney said in an interview with CNBC's "Capitol Report."
"It goes back to the early '90s. It involves a whole series of contacts, high-level contacts with Osama bin Laden and Iraqi intelligence officials."
"The press, with all due respect, (is) often times lazy, often times simply reports what somebody else in the press said without doing their homework."
But now, astonishingly, he says simultanously that "I do not believe and have never seen any evidence to confirm that [Hussein] was involved in 9/11", yet that Bush administration intelligence was never faulty. Cheney has essentially admitted that he lied, for several years, in every forum possible, when he claimed the evidence was "overwhelming".

In 2003, Free Republic reported that Cheney had berated the late host of Meet the Press, Tim Russert, for reporting that no link had been found between Saddam Hussein and the 9/11 attacks. Cheney said he had seen proof that Saddam Hussein had provided "training" to al Qaeda operatives and all but called Russert a liar, saying he had personally told Russert that significant evidence existed of a connection between Hussein and al Qaeda.

Russert, as he was wont to do, was of course reporting the facts available to him, as provided by numerous sources in the government and on the 9/11 Commission. Cheney was reported to have said specifically that he knew "al Qaeda sent personnel to Baghdad to get trained on the systems that are involved [in 9/11-style hijackings]".

Cheney also alleged that Hussein was behind the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center parking garage, allegedly orchestrated by al Qaeda, saying:

We know, for example, in connection with the original World Trade Center bombing in '93 that one of the bombers was Iraqi, returned to Iraq after the attack of '93. And we've learned subsequent to that, since we went into Baghdad and got into the intelligence files, that this individual probably also received financing from the Iraqi government as well as safe haven.
Cheney also claimed to know of "The Iraqis providing bomb-making expertise and advice to the al Qaeda organization", offering no dates, details, individual names, planned targets, nor any rationale for doing so since al Qaeda had sworn to destroy Saddam Hussein for defiling the holy lands of Islam. Peter Bergen, one of the few journalists to have interviewed Osama Bin Laden personally, also interviewed people close to him or who had known him over the years.

To date, not one piece of information has ever been provided by Bush-era officials to support their claims of an Iraq-9/11 link. George W. Bush himself has disavowed the Iraq-9/11 claims and said the focus was on preventing Iraq from acquiring or distributing WMD-related technologies. Cheney, of course, is also the main pusher of the "reconstituted nuclear weapons program" claim.

Though Cheney has been vehemently defending himself against allegations of untruth and wrongdoing, his admission that he has "never seen any evidence to confirm that [Hussein] was involved in 9/11" is essentially a verbal admission that he systematically lied to members of Congress, the American people and the world, for years. The admission is likely to revive calls for an investigation into the underlying intelligence behind Cheney's adamant but false claims about Saddam Hussein's regime and the threat it posed to US security.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leaders of the attack Muslims movement like Cheney don't want to be remembered for that idea which is hurting our country.

Supporting peaceful Muslims which are in the vast majority will be the strategy that wins against extremist conservatives on both sides.

Folks who travel all understand this as well as the peaceful citizens of most countries.
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