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Skinny 490s - Bang for the buck?
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only mention Hot sails mast for two reasons, it's incredibly strong and there may be some people upgrading their mast quivers to the new ultra and looking to offload them. Of course an Ezzy mast would be best for Ezzy sails.
BTW, you can rig a 10M Hot Sails speedfreak on a 490, I don't think there are any other 10M sails that will rig on a 490.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2390

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clinical study of an identical 6.5ish sail with the 2 different masts: 1 SDM, the other RDM. both masts 100% carbon. board test was done several years ago in florida. there were about 20 people in the test, and 6-7 that played witht he gear, but didn't have the time to go thru all of the stuff. some folks did not notice the difference, let's say half. some shied away with no vocal reasons why. a few said simple stuff like "that one feels heavier." one said "it's mushy." 4-5 said, i like the RDM in the waves, but would rather use the SDM on flat water, esp when really lit.

what makes RDM's not so hot for me? quite often, esp in larger sizes, the reflex stinks compared to a SDM. the sail stays folded over longer in windy, gusty, choppy conditions. heavy and mushy are great words.

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outhaul



Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 178

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, nothing beats a side by side comparison test. I'd love to compare the Ezzy RDM vs a SDM with my 8.5.
Ultimately I couldn't arrange a side by side so I went for the (IMO) sure thing (Ezzy 490). Sure thing because I knew it would be durable and I know how Ezzy stands behind their products and would take care of me if disappointed in the mast. I have no regrets.
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paulf.



Joined: 21 Mar 1996
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm in a pretty unique situation with a Hot Superfreak 8.0 as my big freeride sail. i was ready to give it up until i put a 490 skinny(Nolimitz f.a.s.t.) in it(after a well matched 100% SDM race mast). this mast is a tick top stiff compared to Hot specs, but the sail feels wonderful, pumps better, luffs better, but stull locked it at the top like only superfreaks can. handles better in tacks and my bad habit of mast grab in the jibe with the RDM as well. i think the nolimitz is too stiff for the ezzy specs but some gorge sailors will surely know.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NL Fast 490 77.5 63.5 = 14

Hot Rod 490 78 65 = 13


on the respective websites

the Fast on paper , which is only a portion of the big picture is softer top

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paulf.



Joined: 21 Mar 1996
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that 12 is the standard for"constant curve" and as the numbers go up it means more flex top, but isnt 63.5 less deflection than 65 so actually stiffer in the top?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5745

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A classic constant curve "12" mast is the 64/76 bend curve. However, it should be noted that the 64 measurement is for the base, and 76 measurement is for the top.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paulf. wrote:
I know that 12 is the standard for"constant curve" and as the numbers go up it means more flex top, but isnt 63.5 less deflection than 65 so actually stiffer in the top?


bend curve is defined as such: note that the scale goes from 0--21

the stiffest masts are 8, flex are 14, so the real range is even less, exceptions to this statement abound , but generally speaking is accurate

0--6 Hard top
7--9 Hart Top Constant Curve
10--12 Constant curve
13--15 Constant curve flex top
16--18 Flex top
19 --21 Flex top , super flex

This numbers come from hanging a 30kg from the center of the mast, then measure the % deflection from 1/4 to half distance , same calculation from 3/4 point, subtract the 2 figures, and fit into the above chart. 78minus 65=13 constant curve flex top

The system doesnt account for just the top or lower, but does give some indicators of stiffness and where.

Mast feel is dictated by:
Overall stiffness
the rations between 1/4 and 3/4 bend points
the carbon content
the carbon orientation, more zero axis fibers = better reflex.


63.5 VS 65 to me means its stiffer in the bottom, the mast #s overall are softer, but not much. 78% for a top is pretty flexy

I more I think I know about this subject, the more obvious it becomes that it does not transpose into math.
except this part

NEW 400 RDM cost = $450 MSRP

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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2390

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

static tests are one thing, on the water head to head tests are the most convincing to me. but, i'm cursed with remembering stuff i really care about. ask me about a humdrum business day a week ago, and i'll provide a dumb look. ask me about my favorite board or sail from a decade ago, and i'll give a gibe to gibe remembrance.....
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the mast measure system is not what I call a test. It is the measure of an individual mast to calculate its mast bend curve, this will vary even in the same mast company from size to size. But call it what you will

A test is a comparison of different masts, exactly like you said.

Boards magazine did several tests, all RDMs using the recommended mast and someone else, they used 100% and 75% and the results were a bit puzzling, some sails worked better on 75% and others masts, human preference.

I used to use a 100% SDM on my largest sails, have now become more adapted to a skinny, will rig the SDM this spring to try.

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