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keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Nader got famous in Missouri by supporting legislation requiring farmers to carry ports potties in their trucks so their workers could move from field to field without having to piss outside with the farmer. He is detested to this day for that
My uncle fired most of his guys and farmed corn instead to avoid having his new pickup as a toilet. Lots of guys lost heir jobs so they changed the law.
He didn't get many votes in Missouri. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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Nader is a nutty jerk. He's been known to have done many questionable things in the past, starting with his off-the-top campaign against the Chevrolet Corvair. My first car was a 1960 Corvair, so I know that Nader was full of crap.
Needless to say, I've never voted for him for anything. He ran for president, not because he had a chance in hell to win, he just wanted to screw things up. I'm inclined to agree with mac about Nader being a narcissist. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14879
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| keycocker wrote: | Nader got famous in Missouri by supporting legislation requiring farmers to carry ports potties in their trucks so their workers could move from field to field without having to piss outside with the farmer. He is detested to this day for that
My uncle fired most of his guys and farmed corn instead to avoid having his new pickup as a toilet. Lots of guys lost heir jobs so they changed the law.
He didn't get many votes in Missouri. |
maybe the farmers of MO helped fund the GM crowd in some of their corporate crimes on Nader...
Naders old endeavors that I have read about seem good, but now he seems to have gone to the deep end. Glad he is green party now... good place for him, yep he was a factor in getting Bush elected.
Even a former GM executive came out and ratted out GM and said the corvair was as Nader called it.
wiki
| Quote: | | In early March 1966, several media outlets, including The New Republic and The New York Times, reported that GM had tried to discredit Nader, hiring private detectives to tap his phones and investigate his past, and hiring prostitutes to trap him in compromising situations.[16][17] Nader sued the company for invasion of privacy and settled the case for $425,000. Nader's lawsuit against GM was ultimately decided by the New York Court of Appeals, whose opinion in the case expanded tort law to cover "overzealous surveillance".[18] Nader used the proceeds from the lawsuit to start the pro-consumer Center for Study of Responsive Law. |
The Koch brothers are such hypocrites being trust fund kids that sugar daddy gave them everything and they just think they are gods now. Just more Oligarchs.
The fact that some here compare them to Sorros is laughable and show how ignorant the right wing is. Sorros spends a fraction to what these two trust funders do on politics. The estimates are the Koch brothers spent over $400,000,000.00 in the last presidential election cycle to attack Obama. That does not even include their oil company advertisements of propaganda.
Sorros does not even put in a fraction of that volume of money.
There are about 100 ultra right wing rich and trust funders that make sorros donations seem like nothing. I have listed them before and will list them here is someone wants.
To date no right winger has ever listed anyone that donates like the Koch brothers do that is a liberal. or even another person who donated big bucks that is a liberal. Again are all right wingers so ignorant. Amazing how the media does not point this out that to date I have never met a right winger who is even remote clued into the right wing Oligarchs.
again I have challenged so called knowledgeable politically partisans on many boards to list the liberal rich that influence via money, Styer is the top liberal. and to date none have given a respectable list or viable one.
Just like I point out , of the richest corporations in the USA, OIL, Oil, chemical. insurance, banking, chemical, defence contractor, medical and so on every one is virtually supporting in many ways right wing with their money.
Example in one day the largest oil company makes more money than the largest contribution by a business to democrats a union. Again on one single day that oil company has more revenue than the union donates in a year. And that does not even count on ads by oil companies like we employ 100k people so we are good, those are propaganda because they do not make you switch oil. but not counted in the political cycle totals for spending.
right wingers like to exclude 501 c 3 funding (dark money) like they are not used for politics. How convenient.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/09/koch-brothers-liberal-counterpart_n_5113492.html
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/09/opensecrets-battle-koch-brothers/
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:06 am Post subject: |
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The end of Corvairs was a huge boon for volkswagon bugs at the time.
They had identical suspensions, and much worse handling and brakes.
It was likely that alone substantially increased the number of deaths on the hiway.
They sold by the millions in the US and Nader.had nothing to say.
He was focused on his own greatness and no longer wanted to talk about cars safety.
The election was the same. He looked good to the I informed and the American people took a bad hit. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14879
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| keycocker wrote: | The end of Corvairs was a huge boon for volkswagon bugs at the time.
They had identical suspensions, and much worse handling and brakes.
It was likely that alone substantially increased the number of deaths on the hiway.
They sold by the millions in the US and Nader.had nothing to say.
He was focused on his own greatness and no longer wanted to talk about cars safety.
The election was the same. He looked good to the I informed and the American people took a bad hit. |
do you have some links to these opinions, would love to see the facts behind your statements.
From what I saw is resulting pressure on the industry to make safer cars in the future, if so how many lives is he responsible for saving and injuries prevented. Is it ever a bad thing to force an industry to force a change in mindset to make a safer product?
Again GM hired people to attack him including hiring prostitutes to try to sucker him to attack him. I believe the verdict he was paid was much too low for doing this. He even used that settlement money to set up more consumer advocacy.
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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He had a big effect on Volkswagen.They continued to sell the same dangerous cars for all those years .
GM made one single car ,the Corvair that they halted production.
That was his one effect on the car industry.
Do you have any support for your opinion that he had a big effect on car safety? I have never heard that idea before. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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My first car was a 1960 Corvair.. I drove it all over South California surfing for over 4 years from 1965-69. On one trip to the Hollister Ranch in 67, I had it on the beach off-roading it from Rights and Lefts all the way up to John's Pond. The car was amazing, and as a teenager, I definitely pushed its limits.
I'm clearly of the opinion that the Corvair got a bad rap through Nader's hyped-up antics. In my view, Nader is one off-the-top liberal that is worthy of disdain for many of his activities. Without Nader, George W. Bush wouldn't have gained the presidency in 2000. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm glad you were lucky. Having nearly died in a car accident, I'm a pretty big supporter of car safety regulation--it saved my life, and my wife's. That part of Nader's career is a big plus. Running for President led, indirectly, to the Iraq war. Pretty big downside. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14879
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| swchandler wrote: | My first car was a 1960 Corvair.. I drove it all over South California surfing for over 4 years from 1965-69. On one trip to the Hollister Ranch in 67, I had it on the beach off-roading it from Rights and Lefts all the way up to John's Pond. The car was amazing, and as a teenager, I definitely pushed its limits.
I'm clearly of the opinion that the Corvair got a bad rap through Nader's hyped-up antics. In my view, Nader is one off-the-top liberal that is worthy of disdain for many of his activities. Without Nader, George W. Bush wouldn't have gained the presidency in 2000. |
I hope you know your individual situation while important is not what we look for in making sure things work.. ... come on.
For example millions who own cars where the key does not shut it off if something else is on the keychain in a curve. But for the hundred or so out of the millions they are not alive to tell about it. Again we can have millions saying they never had a problem with their ignition system.
So, what is an acceptable safety level...????
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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For those who hate oligarch's (or so they say), but had never heard of the Koch's, there is this update:
T | Quote: | oday, some five years after the end of the Great Recession, too many American families are still struggling to make ends meet and are living paycheck to paycheck. Millions of Americans find their cost of living soaring and face the sobering reality that their jobs are not paying enough to support their families. But while working and middle-class families are being squeezed, America’s millionaires and billionaires, rich CEOs, and big corporations are living a very different existence and are seeing their wealth, pay, and profits skyrocket.
This inequality is not the result of some luck of the draw or happenstance; it is by design. These millionaires and billionaires, CEOs, and big corporations use a wide array of tactics to make sure that the economic and political system works for them. The billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch are no strangers to this approach. They have used their immense wealth and considerable connections to build a network of political action groups, think tanks, issue advocacy organizations—most notably Americans for Prosperity, or AFP—and like-minded elected officials to rig the system to benefit their bottom line, often at the expense of everyone else.
The Koch brothers have significant financial interests motivating them. Charles and David Koch are ranked as the fifth- and sixth-richest individuals in the world, with an estimated worth of more than $52 billion each. With Charles as CEO and David as executive vice president, the brothers oversee Koch Industries, Inc., America’s second-largest privately held company, a business empire heavily invested in oil and gas, chemicals, transportation, and manufacturing.
Over the years, the Koch brothers have used their vast network to attack government on multiple fronts and levels across multiple issues. But despite the fact the Koch network engages on a broad range of issues—from dismantling workplace protections and repealing the Affordable Care Act to discrediting climate change to repealing a zoo tax in Columbus, Ohio—these attacks have as their overarching purpose to sow discontent with and shrink government. Tim Phillips, head of the Koch-funded AFP, admitted as much when he explained that his organization’s attacks on the Affordable Care Act were really about reducing the size of government. “We have a broader cautionary tale,” said Phillips. “The president’s out there touting billions of dollars on climate change. We want Americans to think about what [the government] promised with the last social welfare boondoggle and look at what the actual result is.”
In the Koch’s telling, the motivation for their actions is driven by a deeply held libertarian philosophy that the less government does, the better off people and businesses will be. But taken to its logical conclusion, this anti-government agenda, if successful, results in a low-tax and low-regulation governing structure that further fattens the pocketbooks of the already wealthy Koch brothers while eliminating the essential government functions that we all benefit from.
Moreover, the Koch brothers’ goal extends far beyond just influencing elections. As Phillips said, “It’s a little frustrating when someone says, ‘Oh, this is a political effort about the U.S. Senate.’ They don’t look at the totality of what Americans for Prosperity is doing.” As the National Journal reported, what Americans for Prosperity is doing is making sure that “every gear in the machine churns toward one objective: remaking the country in a fiscally conservative image—at the local, state, and federal levels. Its vision is a country with fewer taxes, less regulation, and the nearly unfettered right of individuals to do what they want without interference from a meddlesome government.”
In recent years, the Koch brothers have taken their anti-government, low-regulation lobbying efforts to the local level, wading into county tax debates, city transportation decisions, and even school district bond measures. As Eli Miller, director of the Ohio chapter of AFP, put it: “There is no issue we won’t get involved in.” This local approach is an increasingly important prong in their multifaceted effort to limit government as much as possible, resulting in a system that benefits their business while in many cases negatively affecting everyday citizens.
These cases include a variety of advocacy efforts: some that have gained a broad spotlight for their incredulity, and others that are less newsworthy but just as illustrative of their goal. The instances below describe some of the ways in which the Koch network has operated at the local level to weaken all levels of government and the negative effects that push has on local residents. A partial list of Koch-funded efforts include:
Putting politics over kids in Illinois school districts by working to defeat initiatives intended to update school facilities and avoid cuts to school staff positions and programs
Ignoring the environmental consequences by investing in a local board election in Iron County, Wisconsin, to expand mining operations
Mounting a campaign to defeat a tax increase for the popular Columbus Zoo, depriving this Ohio institution of a stable revenue source and the ability to grow
Lobbying to ban a locally designed mass transit system in Nashville, Tennessee, that would improve the city’s connectivity and reduce commuting times for residents
Opposing a proposed 1.75 percent food and beverage tax increase in the tiny town of Fremont, Nebraska, that would fund emergency capital improvement projects
Nixing a proposed 1 percentage point income tax increase in Gahanna, Ohio, meant to prevent cuts to public safety, save jobs, and keep community centers open
Undermining public education in communities across the country by promoting school privatization and attacking teachers unions through local school initiatives and school board elections
Let’s take a closer look at Kochonomics at work. |
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