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w8n4wind



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 273
Location: canada

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject: formula noob Reply with quote

so, i picked up a formula board over the winter for those 10-15knot days and had it out for the first time today. way more challenging than i thought it would be, actually pretty much outta control in the 15knt gusts, and those footstraps... are way out there on the rail. haha
and how do you jibe these things?
anyway, just wondering what size sails and fins people are using in 10-15 for just recreational early planing sailing.?
particularly, the fin, how much smaller is it possible to go and still maintain early planing, if i dont mind giving up the extreme upwind/downwind angles.
right now it has a 70cm drake.
also thinking about maybe a 9m retro for a sail.. is there much to be gained on the lower end by going larger?
or is there any more powerful non-cambered 9m sails out there.?
i dont really want to go bigger as that would require a new mast.

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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1080
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Formula takes getting used to, but it definitely makes 10-15 knots interesting, doesn't it? Smile

If you don't want to feel overpowered, just use the same size sail you would normally use in that wind strength. If you're not sure what that is, I think the weight-based recommendations on my windsurf calculator are pretty accurate. http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2010/11/updated-windsurf-calculator-online.html

When you get more used to formula you can deal with being overpowered by careful tuning and techniques. Some of the classic formula tricks are:

1. Use a modern, racey sail with a well-matched mast and plenty of downhaul.
2. Use a stiff boom with an adjustable outhaul. Tighten the outhaul when reaching or going upwind, and make the outhaul really loose when going deep downwind.
3. Steep upwind and deep downwind are the most controlled headings. It's counterintuitive to go deeper downwind for more control, but it works.
4. Using the chicken strap (middle back strap) also helps a lot when going downwind.
5. A smaller and stiffer fin will reduce the tendency for the board to rail up and "tailwalk" but most people don't go smaller than about 64 cm.

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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2388

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The setup is personal and depends a lot on your sailing skills, your size, and what you have laying around.
I used to use a 5.7 sail on my 95cm Formula board, usually with a 60 cm fin, mostly for reaching, some upwind and downwind, but not competitive. It needed around 12-18 mph breezes, but I"m light at 150 lbs., and skilled at pumping onto a plane.
Normally, 12-18 mph breezes would have me out on a wider slalom board around 60cm, 120 liters, and a 6.5.
You really can't go much smaller in fin than around 58, because the straps are outboard on a wide board.
To jibe, your backfoot goes toes over the leeward rail, feet wide apart, and for most lightweights, any step in front of the front straps takes you OFF a plane, from too much wetter area.
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1080
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to comment about the low end part of your question:

I'd say Sailworks Retro is a good choice for recreational formula sailing, but unless you're < 150 pounds you'll probably want bigger than the 9.0 size to not struggle in 10-12 knots.

I'm 170 pounds and my 9.5 Ezzy Cheetah is great in 12-15 knots, but just barely plane-able at 10 knots. My 11.0 race sail is real good in 10-12 knots, but just barely plane-able at 8 or 9 knots.

-J

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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1479

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fins are critical for formula. I am 170 lbs and stay with a 70 cm Deboichet R13 M fin which works well in almost all conditions (11.0, 9.2, 8.4) in winds from 10 knots to 20 knots. Top formula racers may go down to 65 or 68 cm in really windy conditions, but body weight plays a role.

Toughest thing learning is running deep downwind in rough water. Be prepared to get tossed over the front a few times. The "chicken strap" can save the day if you get way overpowered downwind and even on a beam reach. Much slower, but when survival is needed, it works. The outside straps are much faster downwind, but it can get scary.

When you get over powered on a beam reach, heading up will help, BUT you must keep the power on, sail sheeted in or you will take off. You must not sheet out! This is counter intuitive, but after you do a back flip (board nose straight up) you will understand. You have to keep the pressure on the mast foot.

The gain between a 9 and 11m sail isn't that great. It depends on your body weight. If you are 180+, the 11.0 will be needed in 8-12 knots.

Get an "easy up-haul", it will save a ton of energy if you have to uphaul.
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w8n4wind



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 273
Location: canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info guys..
i guess im going to be keeping the 70cm fin, and be looking for a larger sail than a 9m then..(although it sure didnt feel like i needed anything larger when i was out) as im defo over 180lbs. but itll have to wait because id need a bigger mast/boom as well.
but, will be putting on a chicken strap before my next time out,,man, my downwind runs were sketchy.. and as i said it mightve only been around 15knots, but it was pretty choppy, i was pretty much out of control.
i was using an old np v8 9m, although its sorely in need of a replacement , more tape for now.
it sure is a different kind of sailing..

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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2422

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the key to getting the most out of a formula board is to take really steep angles into and away from the wind. BTW, when you get used to doing so on boards like these, it helps in all other aspects of sailing.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 184
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

in your "signature" you state that "you like longboards"
personally , I use longboards in anything under 12 knots
and probably up to about 16 knots

at just over 100 kilos I use a BIC Techno Formula in about 12 knots with a 10 meter cambered sail.
this is gr8 fun up until 16 knots with some chop
then it becomes work
at that point i usually switch to a large freeride of 160 liters with an 8.4 sail
so, you may not NEED a sail much larger unless you want to go in the lighter winds

James mentioned that earlier

with my 10-oh on the FreeFormula I use a 66 cm fin and a 58 cm weed
both work well
so, you could get a slightly smaller fin, but just more $$$

let us know how it works out
i am very interested in the opinion on Formula from a longboarder

i too almost stopped longboarding after purchasing my BTF
however, i do go out in lighter, less steady winds and prefer the stability and safety of my Mistral Equipe and Fanatic Ultra CAT !!!

GOOD WINDS n LUCK
from Montreal
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w8n4wind



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 273
Location: canada

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey joe.. i dont think i'll stop longboarding, yesterday was an example why, maybe 7-10knots so thought id try the formula again, but not quite enough to get it on, or keep it on a plane. and, as i discovered they really dont like slogging.
whereas, if i had been on my equipe, or megacat in that wind i could kick the daggerboard down, get it up railing and id have been gliding upwind no problems. actually i found on the old raceboards, that 9m was almost overkill.
i just picked up the formula board as an experiment/comparison/change as it was relatively inexpensive. and seems like its going to be a heck of a workout too.
its an 07 ahd 956, if anyone has an opinion on them compared to other formula.
anyway, today was the other end of the windsurf spectrum, trying to hang on to a 4.2, and an 84l board, in the blinding rain.. catapult.
and now i have a 4,2 to replace as well.
Confused

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w8n4wind



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 273
Location: canada

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
the key to getting the most out of a formula board is to take really steep angles into and away from the wind. BTW, when you get used to doing so on boards like these, it helps in all other aspects of sailing.


haha,,the board wasnt really giving me any options of anything but steep angles when i was powered.. i was just along for the ride. Shocked

yep, im hoping it helps in all other aspects of sailing. its all good.

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