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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pointster wrote:
I guess I wasn't clear when I cited statements about Cheney, Fluke, Obama, etc. I wasn't commenting on the truth of those assertions, but rather using them as examples of the kind of personal attacks that we would suspend for a week.

To me, "personal attack" implies a false personal attack. I don't consider a true statement to be an "attack" even if it's irrelevant. That doesn't mean I can't act on it, however; when Limbaugh spent days criticizing Hillary's looks back in the late '90s, I quit listening to him.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT--I don't buy the innocence claim for a second:

Quote:
but the relevant point to me is intent. Did B.B. intend it as a racist remark, or as a comical name, which tickled his fancy?


First the evidence. BB has used terms like "anchor babies" and "obango", and advocated that muslims should kill each other. Most people consider those terms to be ethnic slurs, and judging all muslims by the actions of the extremists to be prejudiced. All he missed was "ragheads", or in Britain, "Paki's".

Second, it is not political correctness to say that bigotry will not be tolerated. It is an essential step in stopping such behavior. But I have never read a rebuke from the righties on this forum to such slurs.

Third, if someone says that you are using ethnic slurs, and your response is to keep using them, regardless of how offensive some find them, you cannot then ask people to avoid using terms that you find offensive without being a hypocrite. When someone has told you that a terms is offensive, if it originated with birthers at the fringe of the Tea Party movement, and has been used by white supremacists, and you then print the term dozens of times, you cannot possibly claim innocence.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poor mac, summer break, he doesn't have any fourth graders to talk down to or chastise so unfortunately we have become his target.
My mother used to say you could tell someone was a teacher by talking to them for 30 seconds.
Mic, just because you call someone a racist over and over does not make it so.
Just because some racist website uses a word does not make anyone who uses that word a racist. There are lots of words used on those websites I'm sure you use some of those words.
Fairly common technique, make something up and keep repeating it over and over and soon the target is connected to that word. For instance, Bush/war criminal, Palin/stupid, obama/smart, all having no basis in fact.
Mac/chairman of childhood propaganda department
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone repeats racial and ethnic slurs, while insisting he is not a bigot, who does he think he is convincing?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As RR pointed out ,there is lots of kinds of bigotry, such as religious bigotry. There is a long history of that. The Irish put up with it a century ago in New York.
It is rare to speak to bigot who knows it. They tell you the words they use don't mean they are a bigot.
That is not the case.
I gave you break until it was clear you knew exactly what you were saying.
You do and don't care. That is bigotry.
About those Muslims all killing each other, would you like to take out any loose children who escape the massacre yourself? Flame thrower maybe?
Maybe you are right and that remark wasn't religious bigotry, just genocide.
Maybe it was just a call for mass murder from a guy who needs a serious self evaluation.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then there is Iso, slut shaming Fluke. As if he is some spiritual judge. Everytime one of the righties starts screaming about birth control, or illegals, it hurts their political prospects. Meanwhile, from the real world, there are solutions that prevent abortions:

Quote:
Dramatic decline in California's teen birthrates over 22 years
By Theresa Harrington

Contra Costa Times

POSTED: 01/07/2014 12:00:00 AM PST0 COMMENTS| UPDATED: ABOUT 17 HOURS AGO

OAKLAND -- California's teen birthrate has plummeted 63 percent since 1990, the most dramatic drop of any state in the nation, according to an annual report released Tuesday.

The numbers are part of a nationwide trend that mark a dramatic turnabout over the past two decades. In 1990, six out of every 100 American girls ages 15-19 gave birth -- a number that was widely regarded as a public health issue demanding attention.

Experts credited the remarkable state turnaround to several factors, including policies aimed at preventing teen pregnancy, funding for adolescent health programs and increased access to contraceptives and abortions.

"I do think the policies and programs on teen pregnancy are working," said Kelly Hardy, senior director of health policy for Children Now, which released the annual data for California. "But a bigger focus on children and adolescent health in general would help keep us moving in the right direction on teen birth and many other issues."

In 1990, California's teen birthrate was 71 births per 1,000 females ages 15-19. By 2012, it had dropped to 26 per 1,000, according to the 2014 Kids Count national report.

Although California showed the most improvement of any state, it does not have the lowest teen birthrate in the country and actually ranks 20th in that category, down from 39th in 1990.

Teen birthrates vary according to geographic area, race and economic status, said Alison Chopel, director of the Public Health Institute's California Adolescent Health Collaborative, which provides advocacy and support to organizations serving youths. For example, Tulare County's teen birthrate in 2012 was the highest in the state, at 54 per 1,000 teens in the 15-19 age group, while Marin County registered the lowest rate -- with 10.1 births, Chopel said, using data compiled from the California Department of Public Health.

Alameda County had 19.4 births per 1,000 teens; Santa Clara, 18.9 births; Contra Costa, 17.2; San Mateo, 15.3; and San Francisco 12.4, she said.

"It has to do with a lot of social and economic factors, including parental communication and openness about sex," she said. "There's a small portion that has to do with teens delaying first intercourse, but the vast majority is contraceptive use and policies related to comprehensive, medically accurate and age-appropriate sexual education."

Some counties have "hot spots" with higher teen birthrates, which tend to be pockets of higher poverty, Chopel said. At 60 teen births per 1,000 teens, Oakland's Fruitvale neighborhood is very high compared with the rest of Alameda County. Similarly, some areas of West Contra Costa County and East Contra Costa had about 50 teen births per 1,000 teens.

Birthrates are also disproportionately higher among Latino and African-American teens, compared with their overall percentage of the population. Statewide, nearly 75 percent of teen births were to Latino mothers, although they represent less than 49 percent of female teens. About 7.6 percent of teen mothers were African-American, although they represent 6.2 percent of the female teen population, Chopel said.

Providing teens with more counseling, activities and support programs could help further reduce pregnancies while also helping them stay in school and out of trouble, she said.

"Youth need to have opportunities to contribute to the community, to be held to high expectations and to have a caring relationship with at least one adult," she said. "Youth that have these things -- through families or community organizations -- have much better outcomes."
A missive from mainstream media--you know, where they check facts and they have an editor?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
Mac, just because you call someone a racist over and over does not make it so.

Why not? It worked for AGW extremism, until science blew it out of the water.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Living in a multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-religious free society demands tolerance and acceptance of others views, from ALL.

To those who live in relative isolation in countries with big wide open spaces, and who rely mainly on 'studies' rather than actual experience of living in a small excessively overcrowded little island with growing integration problems for their views, I suggest they 'read up' on our Trojan Horse fundamentalist Islamic faith school 'goings on!'

At last, our much abused tolerance has ended, and a growing swathe of such schools are now under serious investigation and corrective action, with govenors and staff being dismissed wholesale, and said schools being placed under special measures.

Action, not words, though I've little doubt it is us who will be accused of intollerance and bigotry, not them!
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT

I agree totally. It is easy to sit in a different setting and criticize other societies and cultures for their behaviour (I thought I would try to write in your language). I have tried to make this point with other issues discussed here, such as guns and health care. One size does not fit all and many of us fall into the trap of relying on opinions developed only by reading our favourite news source or study.

It is easier to accept someone when one has nothing to loose. I always laugh at the bumper stickers that read "celebrate diversity" on cars in Telluride where I work. Really, what it means is we will take any race, creed etc as long as they have money! Multi-culturism liberal mecca style.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
many of us fall into the trap of relying on opinions developed only by reading our favourite news source or study ...

Beats the alternative (anecdotal happenstance) as long as we vet our news and study sources. Many of us, however, fall into the trap of relying on opinions developed by talking to like-minded associates. I'd think the VA was peachy keen if I got my opinions from the veterans at my pretty good local VA clinic, and I'd think Israel was the bad guy if I listened to the White House and the equally anti-semitic alphabetic media.

$47,000,000 of our tax dollars to HAMAS? WTF is wrong with this administration?
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