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SPQR
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 274
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 Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| swchandler - since I first started this quest, I began using a plastic flexible case called an Ecase, sort of like a Zip-Loc bag but thicker plastic and a much better seal. I have been placing my valet keys (both Mercedes and Subaru) in the case and then placing the case under my wetsuit. I have also switched exclusively to front zip wetsuits by O'Neil and Xcel, they keep water from surging down the back or front, even when duck diving waves surfing. I've got about 60 days either windsurfing or mostly surfing with this setup and so far no problem. I suspect the plastic case has a short lifespan, so I check it frequently. I can't emphasize enough the difference between a new front zip wetsuit vs. a back zip, especially a back zip wetsuit without a neck gator. As far as my old 30 year old car with a conventional key I don't know if the keyhole has rust or not, but that still works too.
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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I once asked Promotion why they don't make front-zip suits, which would be FAR easier to zip (I've had them)? "Because people complain that they can't overcome the zipper's stiffness to reach the boom."
Seriously? Then they should take up bridge or hit the gym.
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SPQR
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, it's almost like "Back to the Future," I use to love the Victory front zip wetsuits back in the eighties. The Xcel Infinity Comp is Xcel's most flexible wetsuit, and my O'Neil front zip is extremely flexible as well. Paddling a surfboard is a better test of flexibility than holding on to booms. If it is really hot out though, I would probably still use my O'Neil Heat back zip on occasion as the flushing sensation you get with that type of suit is refreshing on a really hot day in Santa Cruz or the SF Bay. But then I doubt I would use the key case I use in my current front zips, you just can't discount how much better they are at keeping water from flushing through the suit. I think my solution is the result of a combination of the case and the type of wetsuit, not just one or the other.
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loopless
Joined: 30 Jun 1997
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Back on the key topic. My personal experience is that when the RFID chip inside your electronic key fob is generally encased in resin, and pretty much unaffected by salt water ( at least on VW/Audi ). I found that out when i experienced a failure in one of those pouches around your neck, and my key fob was drenched in salt water and was completely non functional. However, I had no problems starting the car. Disassembling the key fob showed the RFID was a little resin cylinder.
I switched to a "HitchSafe" for my truck and a real estate lock-box for my commuter car which has proven to be pretty much perfect.
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tony
Joined: 05 May 1994
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| tony wrote: | Can anyone with a 2015 Subaru Outback confirm that it is still possible to make a cheap hardware store copy of the key and use it to unlock the vehicle?
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Took a test drive in a 2015 Outback. Swung by Home Depot, made a dumb key copy and confirmed that it worked for locking/unlocking the doors. Subaru says that the fobless key is water safe but $2 for a dumb copy is cheap insurance.
It also turns out that some 2015 Outbacks have a feature where you can set up PIN entry using the rear door button. It sounds poorly thought out in terms of how to set it up and use it, the conditions under which it works and the combination of options required (requires "Keyless Access" which is available only on Limited models with a moonroof).
See http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2015.html#hdaha for more details.
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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BTW -- I changed the 15 to 12 and got the 2012 version.
Somewhere there are also codes one can use to set other features like this page's rear gate button entry feature.
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tony
Joined: 05 May 1994
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| tony wrote: |
It also turns out that some 2015 Outbacks have a feature where you can set up PIN entry using the rear door button. It sounds poorly thought out in terms of how to set it up and use it, the conditions under which it works and the combination of options required (requires "Keyless Access" which is available only on Limited models with a moonroof).
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For anyone looking at a 2015 Outback I should warn you that although the PIN Code Access feature is available only with the Limited models with the Keyless Access package the online inventory listings for individual cars often list that feature even when it is not present.
Also, creating a cheap chipless copy of the key will unlock the door as previously described. If you make that copy from the regular key it can also unlock the glove box and if you make it from the valet key it cannot.
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SPQR
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony - so you are saying the copy key will open the doors and glove box. But without a chip and programming, what happens to the alarm?
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tony
Joined: 05 May 1994
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| SPQR wrote: | | Tony - so you are saying the copy key will open the doors and glove box. But without a chip and programming, what happens to the alarm? |
WARNING: anyone reading all of this post is liable to fall asleep due to information overload. But I hope it will be helpful to other Subaru owners.
So far as I can tell the chip and programming relate only to the immobilizer function and have nothing to do with the alarm. Here is my best understanding of the interplay between the keys and the alarm based on experiments performed on a 2015 Outback Premium without the Keyless Access package:
There are 2 ways to set the alarm: one is to use the lock button on the fob of a regular key and the other is to press the lock button on the inside of the door before closing the door. If you use any key to unlock and open the door while the alarm is set, the alarm will sound. That is true for chipless key copies, the chipped but fobless valet key or the regular key with fob.
Locking the door using a key leaves the alarm unset such that it can be opened with any key without sounding the alarm.
Taking a dumb key copy out on the water with you means that you get to choose between leaving the car locked but not alarmed or having the alarm sound at least briefly when you unlock it. The former is achieved by using the key to lock it and the latter by using the inside door lock button to lock it.
The above is also true for the valet key but it also introduces a (probably small) risk of damaging the immobilizer functionality such that it cannot start the car. I prefer to take a dumb copy on the water, partly because it eliminates that small risk to the chip but mostly because the dumb copy is much thinner than the valet key and more comfortable in my key pocket.
Obtaining dumb copies turned into a bit of a saga involving trips to multiple Home Depot locations and picking up information and misinformation along the way. For anyone needing keys for a 2015 Outback the following information should help you avoid some of the problems that I encountered:
I encountered 3 different types of key machine any of which should be capable of making the copies although sometimes non-obvious knowledge is required to steer the HD employee in the right direction.
The ideal machine is the type in the picture labelled "NewerKeyMachine" (except for the "Not working" tag, of course). To use this machine the employee inserts the key into the slot highlighted by the red line, the machine reports which blank to use and can then cut the necessary copies onto those blanks using a scanned outline rather than the traditional mechanical shape-following process.
There is a variant of this newer machine which does not have a slot but rather has a chamber in which the original key is placed for the scanning process. For my key this machine reported something like "Not in Program" meaning that it could not identify an appropriate blank. At my final stop I was told that it was possible to solve this problem by entering the code for the appropriate blank as an override. I have no definitive confirmation of this assertion but it sounds plausible.
There is also an older type machine (see "OlderKeyMachine" below - apologies for the poor picture quality) where the area highlighted by the red line contains a series of slots into which the operator attempts to insert the key in order to determine by hand which blank to use. The right hand portion of the machine is a traditional mechanical shape-following key cutter.
In the end all my copies were made on the older style machines but only after I encountered someone who thought to try non-Subaru slots because it turns out that 2015 Outbacks use non-Subaru blanks (mine was #29 - I don't know whether that is true for all 2015s). Even then my first attempt to get the keys made on such a machine was unsuccessful - I think there was something wrong with that particular machine.
No matter how they cut the keys, be sure to test them before driving away. The one time one of my keys was miscut the operator could see right away that there was a problem but more subtle errors are easily overlooked.
Even when you find a location with the right kind of machine and it is working correctly there is no guarantee that they will have the right blanks in stock. I had not decided whether I wanted copies of the regular key or the valet key but wanted 2 copies so was going to get 2 copies made of each and decide later. If I had known that the first store that could make copies that actually worked had only 2 blanks I would probably have just settled for one of each.
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SPQR
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Le Chapeau to Tony, that is some serious Subaru key investigation. The dealer tried to tell me that the keys are "lazer" cut, therefore I wouldn't find anyone able to copy it. I was amazed that a Subaru dealer copy (Carlsen Subaru) was $221 versus $71 for my Mercedes copy by Mercedes. Would you mind telling us Subaru owners which/where HD successfully made key copies. Thanks for your research on all this, you have far more partience than me.
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