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Put children in jail or send them to be killed.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There you go Jibe. You have support from another genius who agrees with you completely and is just as up to date on the facts.
Maybe not.
Still it is good to have folks like yourself coming to your support.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19169

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Save your breath, KC; it takes up to six clicks to reveal what you typed, and you aren't worth that much effort.
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2857

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I guess we're all not meeting up for coffee later then?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9425

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"keycocker often boasts of the school he started in Belize, but less often boasted about the denigrating lies he has told his students in class about me, by name. They are as insane as the crap he endlessly spews here. If you don't want him libeling you by your real name, mrgybe, I suggest you remain anonymous, as even idiots influence SOME idiots."



isobars, do you deny doing "research" on folks here, and then presenting your twisted views and findings about them here?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso can't read my posts, according to him.

Serial liars often have trouble understanding why folks don't believe them.
I have had to counsel 13 year olds on that very subject.
I could help Iso too but you have to want to improve yourself like my students do or it is waste of time.
How about it Iso? That lying thing doesn't bother you at all?
At this point he goes back to pretending he can't read this.
I can understand. Being caught lying is very shameful and can lead to withdrawal and depression.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5775
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
Three marriages.......no kids.......yet you slander a woman who has had a direct role in raising 28. Since you are so interested in the facts, please provide a citation for the child shot at the border so we can all judge the facts for ourselves.

I've been wondering the same thing, I've been looking for that story that he refers to as "We just shot the first child crossing the border." and I can't find it.
All I've been able to come up with is the story of the 16 year old that was shot back on Oct. 12, 2012, who's mother is trying to sue over.
KC, are you referring to that one?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try these keywords -border shooting of 15 year old ABC news
. My links are in Spanish so they may not be appropriate for this crowd.
In the comments the Spanish news woman says the kid threw a rock first.
In the video she is narrating the children are much too far away to pose a threat.
It is wrong to throw rocks. It is stupid to throw rocks as if you are a dumbass teenager.
It is even more stupid to send heavily armed soldiers to deal with children.
My mother spanked us for that. She didn't need an armed private militia and 1000 National Guard troops.
But then,she wasnt running for President. Look on Breitbart for comments on the children. Many posts suggesting we just kill them all.
That site sure is a humdinger. Some folks here read it regularly.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19169

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It amazes me that anyone here still pays any attention to KC (among others) given that virtually every denigrating accusation he has ever made about any conservative person or idea here has been utter, proven, distorted or outright fabricated BS. Anyone who doubts that is welcome to challenge me to defend any (not all, or even many; I have only 2 to 22 years left in me) of his BS accusations. His ONLY redeeming factor has been his rare recognition of our occasional flashes of brilliance, and while appreciated, they don't excuse his behavior.

Even more important, if he ever changes his stripes to become a rational, honest, productive, thoughtful member of this group, let me know and I'll consider looking at his $#!+ again. Until then, no, there would be no coffee even if I drank the stuff.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12639
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Iso, who posted the claim of 95% of the children blame it on Obama, directly from the mouth of Ted Cruz. Ted has a rather tenuous relationship with facts and integrity.

From the Texas press:

Quote:
U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, recently emerged from observing Central American children being held at Lackland Air Force Base and declared related border crossings were surging because of a protective offer from President Barack Obama.

Children from Central American countries and others have established a record flow across the Rio Grande, we recently found.

Accounts have varied on why more are coming than before. For instance, a June 16, 2014, National Journal news story quoted Leslie Velez, a senior protection officer at the U.N. High Commission for Refugees, as saying its 2014 interviews of 404 children revealed many were fleeing violence and crime in their home countries.

Cruz, addressing reporters a week before Obama asked Congress for more money and authority to make it easier to deport recent border crossers, said a survey showed that 95 percent of the immigrants were saying "we are coming because we've been promised amnesty." We rated this Half True; the statistic was right, but the use of the word "amnesty" wasn't. The survey and respondents used the word "permiso," which is a notice given to unaccompanied children enabling them to stay in the country until their cases get a review. That doesn't amount to amnesty.

After mentioning such expectations of amnesty, Cruz went on to say: "That’s the message that’s being heard. And the reason these children are coming in staggering numbers is because the president has been promising amnesty."


Just make it up, as long as you can blame Obama.

Of course, when you are severely paranoid and don't read any mainstream media, you don't get stories like this:

Quote:
Alicia did not seek to leave Las Isletas, her little hamlet near El Salvador's coast. Not in the 1980s, when guerrillas battled the military and her brother and so many others fled to California. Not when earthquakes and hurricanes ravaged the region and her husband helped organize relief efforts.

Not even after her husband was shot dead in an ambush in March did she make the decision to flee. It was the death threats and extortion in the wake of his murder -- against her teenage son and other relatives -- that compelled her to hire a smuggler to get them to the United States.

Nine extended family members, the youngest 4 years old, trekked here on successive trips in late May and June, joining tens of thousands of Central American families and children whose exodus has flummoxed U.S. politicians now arguing over what to do about them.

Most of the attention has been on the 57,000 unaccompanied children caught near the border since October, double the previous year's number. The number of family members fleeing together has grown nearly as large, to 55,000 this year compared with just over 9,000 last year, a spike of nearly 500 percent.

Many migrants illegally crossing the border fear La Migra, the agents from U.S. Border Patrol. Alicia and her family saw them as rescuers.

"I was so happy when La Migra grabbed us," she said, sobbing as she recounted the 20-day journey with her three children. "They put us in an ice-cold room, but I was so happy to be there."

The family is now seeking asylum, permanent protection that requires showing a judge a well-founded fear of returning home. Crowded in a Contra Costa County home, with electronic tracking bracelets around the ankle of each adult, Alicia's family is one of several in the Bay Area that spoke with this newspaper about what brought them here. The newspaper agreed not to use full names for Alicia and others because of ongoing gang threats.

They were motivated by a variety of unique and sometimes complementary reasons -- reuniting with long-lost relatives, rumors of U.S. laws that could protect them, a chance at a better life -- but all shared a common connection, one that seems typical of their fellow travelers around the country. Living amid growing violence, they believed that they and their loved ones had a choice of leaving -- or dying.

A BOY ON HIS OWN

For two weeks last year, Redwood City resident Maria Flores frantically tried to figure out the whereabouts of her 13-year-old grandson. She could barely concentrate on her work cleaning Silicon Valley houses as she waited for him to call.

Abandoned by his parents and living with an aunt, Xavier Steven Lazo Flores was determined to find his way to Redwood City from Soyapango, a violence-wracked suburb of San Salvador, El Salvador's capital city.

California-born street gangs Calle 18 and the Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13, battle for turf and cash in the Salvadoran metropolis and increasingly across the countryside. They recruit children far younger than Xavier.

Xavier preferred school, and art, so he steered clear.

When the sun set, all the neighbors along his "callejón" -- a blind alley -- closed the passageway off with a big metal gate, a new safety measure taken amid rising violence. Young neighborhood gangsters knew him by name, but they left him alone as he walked home from school or passed time with friends.

Still, family members wanted the academically minded boy in a better place. Flores, who lived through El Salvador's 12-year civil war, said the new violence is different, and in some senses worse in the way it targets innocents who have no interest in getting involved.

The flight of unaccompanied children had not yet captivated the attention of the American public when Xavier arrived last year, but he was part of a wave that was growing month by month. He crossed through Guatemala and Mexico before slipping across the Rio Grande into the South Texas plains and a migrant "stash house," where the smugglers wouldn't let him use a phone.

He and about 30 others later trekked north at night through the remote scrublands near Falfurrias. The next day, after hurting his leg, he was alone, increasingly hungry, and he found a secluded place to sleep. Many have died on this arid route, including two boys whose bodies were discovered in June.

A local police officer questioned the boy after he emerged in public, looking for a bus ticket and other necessities. The officer alerted federal agents, telling Xavier he was safer with them than the smugglers.

Family was the main driver of Xavier's journey, as were rumors -- based on fact -- that he could win permission to stay because his parents had long ago stopped caring for him. His father was never a part of his life, and his mother left for Guatemala years ago with another man. With a lawyer's help, a San Mateo County probate court investigated, paving the way for him to win Special Immigrant Juveniles Status -- a path to permanent U.S. residency for neglected children who cannot go home.

He won his green card in March, and in June he graduated from a nearby middle school -- earning an A in his algebra and other classes despite knowing little English. "Most Improved," says the certificate his grandmother displays in her Redwood City home.

"I feel a lot calmer, safer now," the boy said in his living room last week. "If I go buy something, or go walking anywhere, nothing's going to happen to me."

VIOLENCE PERMEATES

El Salvador is Central America's smallest country, about the same size as the San Francisco Bay Area, and with fewer people. But its murder rate is shocking even when compared with the roughest U.S. cities -- 378 people were killed in June alone. In Honduras, where powerful drug cartels and other bad actors add to the local gang problems, the violence is worse.

One Guatemalan teenager who came to Oakland by himself last fall said he feels far safer in the East Bay city, despite its reputation for gun violence.

"They don't extort you here," said the 18-year-old, who was detained by immigration agents in Texas, reunited with his mother and now attends an Oakland high school. In his hometown near the road to Mexico, the tiny store his family owns was constantly receiving gang threats and demands for money, he said.

After interviewing more than 500 children recently deported to El Salvador after they were caught by Mexican authorities, UC Santa Barbara and Fulbright scholar Elizabeth Kennedy said most reported violence as the chief reason for their flight. Family rumors that children can win asylum or special protection also motivate them to leave, but Kennedy said, "These parents and these family members would not send for their children if they were not desperate, if they did not think the children were unsafe. Something happens, and they just can't stay any longer."

Drug cartels broken up in Mexico have moved into Central America, causing violence that was once concentrated in capital cities to reach farther into rural and border areas, Kennedy said.

And unlike in the United States, where frightened residents can pack up and leave a dangerous neighborhood and move to another city or state, Kennedy said many Central Americans find it hard to escape to a safe place within their country's borders. Gangs now permeate villages and nosy neighbors are wary of newcomers from another town, fearing that they, too, will bring more danger.

"These are traumatized societies. They've had years and years of high levels of violence," Kennedy said. "We in the United States cannot comprehend what it is like."

Although the United States has drawn the most fleeing Central American children and families, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees found that many others have fled to closer and relatively better-off neighbors, such as Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Costa Rica and Belize. A decades-old U.S. legal system protects asylum-seekers persecuted in their homeland, but in most cases they have to get here first and pass a border screening. Then, it can take years before a judge decides.

Not long after Alicia and her three kids set off from Las Isletas, her younger brother Carlos followed in June with his 11-year-old son.

"My son asked me, 'Papi, why are we going?' I told him because of what happened to your uncle. We are all being threatened," Carlos said.

The boy cried throughout the journey. Why, he asked, couldn't his mom join them? The family couldn't afford it yet but would try to reunite later, Carlos told him, even as he privately worried about her fate.

"I tried to console him," Carlos said. "I told him, 'We're going to a beautiful place, a place where people get along.'"

But even some finding refuge in the Bay Area fear that the transnational gangs could track them to their new homes. Another teen, a family friend, who joined the group on their odyssey began receiving threats on his Facebook account just a week ago.

"Soon you'll be back here, (expletive)," said the ominous message that predicted the teen will be deported. "But you already know that Calle 18 controls Las Isletas, and everywhere."

Staff photographer Ray Chavez contributed to this report.



So, as I predicted earlier, the far right will control the Republican party, they will pander to the worst instincts of their nativist whackos, they will try to blame, as Cruz did, the permisso system established when Bush signed a law, on Obama, and when countered to the truth, they will retreat (mrgybe) into silence, or lie some more, and post irrelevant pictures of gang bangers who are the reason the kids are fleeing (Mike Fick.) Or, threaten them with guns.

My objections to the right are not support for unrestricted immigration. Rather, they reflect my understanding that political progress, on this or any issue, requires communication, understanding of the facts, accepting that there are more than one way to look at an issue, and compromise. The Tea Party is capable of none of that.

I expect mrgybe, if he responds at all, to repeat Tea Bag talking points (soft-pedaling the bigotry), or attack all of us "liberals" by pointing out something awful that has no bearing on the current political stalemate that results from Boehner's cowardice and incompetence.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso doesn't like for me to point that he is a serial liar.
I can make him blow up like that without much effort.
Even though I always try to remind him that he is being manipulated in posts he can't read, he still freaks out on me in public on command.
My evil deeds against him seem so trivial that he has needed to to expand them in wondrous ways.
Some folks don't read my posts but as far as I know he is my most avid fan.
I have never affected a person so profoundly with my simple modest prose.
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