Ezzy Lion vs Retro

[c3m4]

I'm in the process of hunting for an old longboard for:

- light-wind days in the sf bay area
- lighter-wind locations when I'm windsurfing with my young daughter
- being able to do some upwind/downwind exploring

I want a bigger sail than my 10-year-old Retro 6.5. I don't think I want a raceboard sail since I may ditch the longboard and try an Ultrasonic or similar board at some point in the future, so I'm looking for a good general-purpose sail with lots of range (ideally 10-20+mph on a longboard), with good upwind ability. Any opinions on how an Ezzy Lion would compare to the Retro in an ~8.5 size for this application? Would the cams give enough of a range boost to be worth the hassle? Any other options I should be considering? I'm 92kg btw

[gvogelsang]

I cannot compare the Lion to the Retro, because I have not sailed a Retro. I will say that the cams on the Lion are not a hassle for rigging, and are fairly soft when tacking or gybing. I have a 7.5 Lion and it is an easy, all-around nice sail.

I also have a 7.5 Zephyr, which might be another sail to consider. It sails like a bigger, longer boomed Cheetah.

[wynsurfer]

I have a 9.0 retro and have owned the Ezzy Lion in a 7.0. Performance wise I think you will find the two sails very close in low end power, with the lion maybe having a slight advantage in top end. I think the lion is an easier sail to rig even with the cams. the mast slides right in the luff sleeve without having to scrunch the sail cloth, not so with the retro. I also do not like the head cap/ pin being inside the head of the sail on the retro.

I've switched to the Ezzy Cheetah in 6.5 and 7.5. I considered the Zephyr, but it would not fit my booms at the time. It takes a 460 mast which is nice.

Hardly ever use the 9.0 retro. I only pull it out when the water is quite flat. Both are great sails, I prefer the Cheetahs though.

[Sailboarder]

You are probably looking for two sails.

For slow cruising with your daughter, nothing beats very light dacron sails without battens. I use my 1984 NP 6.0 for that. You can use any fitting mast and boom on it. Modern WindSUP sails are similar.

For the rest, depending on your sailing conditions, you might even want to go with a 9.5. I will personally get a Lion in that size. The sail has good reputation and I allready have an Ezzy 490 recommended for it.

I own a Kona 9.0 sail that's quite light, but is not super stable. It works well both in planing and non-planing (with tight leach). The Lion will be for unstable winds in planing conditions. The cams will help to stabilize it.

[adywind]

It's like comparing apples and oranges. An adequate comparison would be Cheetah vs Retro.
I had 2 Infinity sails in the past /the former Lions/ and I replaced them with non cambered 7 batten sails including Retros. I find those easier for transitions and waterstarting /going neutrall/ and stable and rangy enough for me. I don't have any downwind racing or gps ambitions where the cambered sails in bigger sizes /then one would normally rig for reaches / are preferred . I'm realizing I'm getting more efficient as the seasons go by and increasingly preferring smaller, lighter and more fun equipment compared to what I was after in the beginning.

[c3m4]

Thanks for the replies. It really sounds like I could go either way. I could also go with the Zephyr, but I have an impression that sail would be more limited to longboards. And I do realize I'm comparing apples and oranges, but I already have Retros so I would just get another one rather than switching to a Cheetah (so I'm really asking about twin-cam vs no-cam).

I'm really trying to see if I can have a single-sail windsurf setup that I could use somewhat like a Laser dinghy - you just go sailing almost regardless of the wind. Maybe not that exciting when the wind is light, but you can still explore, still work on squeezing every bit of efficiency out of the available wind, still cruise around with your kid, etc. . .

[Sailboarder]

[joethewindsufa]

single board with single sail ... for a heavyweight
hmm...
Sailboarder is the local KONA sailor and I am the local longboarder
i consider my longboards hybrids cuz they are about 320 cm long and 210 liters
which is FINE
one is the Fanatic Ultra CAT and the other the Mistral Equipe I
for me NOTHING beats them in light winds - under 10 knots
i have tried 10-oh sails, 8.5 cambered and 8.5 RAF no cambered sails
have also used a 7-oh in bigger winds
I WAS a firm believer in cambered sails and still feel they have their place
now on the longboards I have been using 8.5 sails with NO cambers
i find it MUCH more leisurely
i can putz about and when sail drops in water - easy to uphaul
right now i am experimenting with a HotSailsMaui SpeedFreak which has GREAT range
it does not have the power in light winds i am used to with cambered or monofilm - that does not bother me cuz if i want the powerhouse, i put my fully cambered MauiSails TR-6 8.4
i used to love my free-race MauiSails MS-2 8.0, but i busted it up by not putting enough downhaul and using it in the winter on the ice
it took me time to realize that downhaul range is NOT big on sails
if a sail is made to have a leech, put it
so, yes, longboard or KONA with an 8.5 is a great ride for heavyweights in quite a large range of winds
HOWEVER, i do switch out to other boards when the winds pick up
Sailboarder does too
unfortunately I have NOT tried the Severne Raceboard sail meant for longboards - YET

[rhorton1]

I can't compare the two, but I purchased a 2014 Lion 9.5 to use on my longboard, and am 100% happy with it. It is SURPRISINGLY easy to rig, powerful in sub-15 mph winds, and also very easy to uphaul. The cambers rotate very easily, and it rigs on a relatively compact 250cm boom. I considered the Retro, and almost bought one, but for pricing reasons I ended up with the Lion, and I'm happy I did!

[adywind]

Adjustable outhaul systems like the Sailworks /the one I'm using/ or Chinook and others aswell greatly extend the range of any sail.