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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 4161
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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OK, I found my original post: Department of Homeland Security is the source. If you ignore the "returns" it looks like Obama removed more illegals.
Quote: | Just some facts about Deportations/Removals/Returns
I have had some difficulty formatting this after copying from DHS. The first column is the year, second is "Removed/Deported" and the third is "Returns". Add both columns together to see how many were sent home for a specific year.
From the Department of Homeland Security
http://www.dhs.gov/yearbook-immigration-statistics-2011-3
Removed/Deported Returns
2000 188,467 1,675,876
2001 189,026 1,349,371
2002 165,168 1,012,116
2003 211,098 945,294
2004 240,665 1,166,576
2005 246,431 1,096,920
2006 280,974 1,043,381
2007 319,382 891,390
2008 359,795 811,263
2009 393,457 584,436
2010 385,100 475,613
2011 391,953 323,542
Returns = Not based on an order of Removal, but returned to their
country after crossing into the US illegally.
The numbers seem to be going down, but like all things government, there seems to be a lot of ways to interpret data. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Trying as hard as they might, the right is having a hard time finding facts that prove that President Obama and his administration are lenient about illegal immigration and border security. The one thing that is quite clear though is that Republicans in Congress, and particularly those in the House, are refusing to address immigration reform, and to take responsibility for formally addressing our illegal immigration problem. In my view, getting serious about the issue is all about cracking down on businesses and individuals that employ illegal immigrants. Focusing on walls and borders is a red herring that will never meaningfully curtail those illegally entering our country. You need to cut off job opportunities to stem the tide and ultimately fix the problem. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 4161
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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swchandler said: Quote: | In my view, getting serious about the issue is all about cracking down on businesses and individuals that employ illegal immigrants. |
I agree. So does Arizona..........
Quote: | Supreme Court Upholds Arizona Illegal-Hiring Law
By Greg Stohr May 26, 2011 12:14 PM ET
High Court Upholds Arizona Illegal-Hiring Sanctions
The U.S. Supreme Court, rejecting business arguments, upheld an Arizona law that threatens companies with the revocation of their corporate charters if they hire illegal immigrants.
In a 5-3 ruling, the justices said a federal law governing immigrant hiring leaves room for states to impose their own penalties for non-compliance, even by stripping away a company’s license to do business.
The breakdown may hint at the outcome should the high court consider a separate Arizona law giving local police a greater role in arresting illegal immigrants. The court’s five Republican appointees formed the majority today, buttressing state power and rejecting the type of business concerns they often support in other contexts.
“License suspension and revocation are significant sanctions,” Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in the court’s lead opinion. “But they are typical attributes of a licensing regime” imposed by states.
Roberts said the Arizona law allows the so-called business death penalty only for the most egregious cases, involving at least two intentional violations. “An employer acting in good faith need have no fear of the sanctions,” he wrote. |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002 Posts: 9120 Location: at a computer
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Its just window dressing. Every state has ability to impose sanctions or shut down a business for illegal hiring practices. Do you think a state run by politicians, supported by the businesses, will turn around and hammer the businesses that funded them? didnt think so......
Let me know when no illegal immigrants can work in this country....S&P 500 down 50% as soon it is reality. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17747 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Is that sound techno backing up? or down? |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002 Posts: 9120 Location: at a computer
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Its one thing to take a moral political stance, its another to learn of the consequences of the new reality it creates. If we eliminate the practice of hiring the undocumented, the disruption would be dramatic. Markets would crack, inflation would soar. We are in a global economic competition like we never imagined, and higher labor costs here at home would create havoc. Pensions would crash, businesses would fold, it would be ugly. We can go this route, or we can figure out how to document those that are here already, working, and contributing.
Could you imagine competing with China, and Mexico, and South America exporting food, if we forced all the domestic businesses to alter their hiring practices? |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 4161
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Window dressing - Not totally - from snopes.com:
Quote: | Mexico Is Angry
Claim: Mexican legislators expressed concern that an Arizona law would prompt an influx of Mexicans into Sonora from Arizona.
TRUE
Example: [Collected via e-mail, May 2008]
MEXICO IS ANGRY!
Three cheers for Arizona
The shoe is on the other foot and the Mexicans from the State of Sonora, Mexico doesn't like it. Can you believe the nerve of these people? It's almost funny. The State of Sonora is angry at the influx of Mexicans into Mexico. Nine state legislators from the Mexican State of Sonora traveled to Tucson to complain about Arizona's new employer crackdown on illegals from Mexico.
It seems that many Mexican illegals are returning to their hometowns and the officials in the Sonora state government are ticked off.
A delegation of nine state legislators from Sonora was in Tucson on Tuesday to state that Arizona's new Employer Sanctions Law will have a devastating effect on the Mexican state.
At a news conference, the legislators said that Sonora — Arizona's southern neighbor, made up of mostly small towns — cannot handle the demand for housing, jobs and schools that it will face as Mexican workers return to their hometowns from the USA without jobs or money.
The Arizona law, which took effect Jan. 1, punishes Arizona employers who knowingly hire individuals without valid legal documents to work in the United States. Penalties include suspension of, or loss of, their business license.
The Mexican legislators are angry because their own citizens are returning to their hometowns, placing a burden on THEIR state government. 'How can Arizona pass a law like this?' asked Mexican Rep Leticia Amparano-Gamez, who represents Nogales.
'There is not one person living in Sonora who does not have a friend or relative working in Arizona,' she said, speaking in Spanish. 'Mexico is not prepared for this, for the tremendous problems it will face as more and more Mexicans working in Arizona and who were sending money to their families return to their home-towns in Sonora without jobs,' she said. 'We are one family, socially and economically,' she said of the people of Sonora and Arizona.
Wrong!
The United States is a sovereign nation, not a subsidiary of Mexico, and its taxpayers are not responsible for the welfare of Mexico's citizens.
It's time for the Mexican government, and its citizens, to stop feeding parasitically off the United States and to start taking care of its/their own needs.
Too bad that other states within the USA don't pass a law just like that passed by Arizona .
Maybe that's the answer, since our own Congress will do nothing!
Origins: The gist of this item is true in the sense that in January 2008, a delegation of nine legislators from Sonora (the Mexican state immediately south of Arizona) did come to Tucson to express concerns that Arizona's recently enacted Legal Arizona Workers Act (an employer sanctions law which imposed penalties on employers who knowingly hired persons lacking documentation of their status to legally work in the United States) would have a deleterious effect on Sonora. After a press conference held at the offices of Project PPEP a day prior to the delegation's meeting with Hispanic legislators, the Tucson Citizen reported the Sonoran representatives posing questions such as the following:
[Sonoran legislators say] Sonora — Arizona's southern neighbor, made up of mostly small towns — cannot handle the demand for housing, jobs and schools it will face as illegal Mexican workers [in Tucson] return to their hometowns without jobs or money.
They want to tell [Arizona legislators] how the law will affect Mexican families on both sides of the border.
"How can they pass a law like this?" asked Mexican Rep. Leticia Amparano Gamez, who represents Nogales.
"There is not one person living in Sonora who does not have a friend or relative working in Arizona," she said in Spanish.
"Mexico is not prepared for this, for the tremendous problems"
it will face as more and more Mexicans working in Arizona and sending money to their families return to hometowns in Sonora without jobs, she said.
"We are one family, socially and economically," she said of the people of Sonora and Arizona.
Amparano said the Mexican legislators are already asking the federal government of Mexico for help for Sonora.
Rep. Florencio Diaz Armenta, coordinator of the delegation, represents San Luis, south of Yuma, one of Arizona's agricultural hubs, which employs some 28,000 legal Mexican workers.
"What do we do with the repatriated?" he asked. "As Mexicans, we are worried. They are Mexicans but they are also people — fathers and mothers and young people with jobs" who won't have work in Sonora.
He said the Arizona law will lead to "disintegration of the family," as one "legal" Mexican parent remains in Arizona and the other returns to Mexico.
Rep. Francisco Garcia Gámez, a legislator from Cananea and that city's former mayor, said the lack of mining jobs there has driven many Mexicans to Arizona to find work. He said they depend on jobs in Arizona to feed their families on both sides of the border.
In late April 2010 this item began to be circulated anew, with many readers misinterpreting the included quotes to be a reaction to SB 1070 (Arizona's controversial immigration law, which had been signed into effect on 23 April 2010), but by then the piece was a two-year-old news story which referred to a related but completely different law.
In July 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to hear a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the Legal Arizona Workers Act. Also that month, a U.S. District judge issued a temporary injunction that halted the enforcement of key parts of SB 1070.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/mexicoangry.asp#hkxTO4VEs5L1PT1l.99 |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17747 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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More seriously:
Quote: | A report released Wednesday by researchers at USC found that immigrants who are in California illegally make up nearly 10% of the state's workforce and contribute $130 billion annually to its gross domestic product.
The study, which was conducted in conjunction with the California Immigrant Policy Center, was based on census data and other statistics, including data from the Department of Labor and the Department of Homeland Security. It looked at a variety of ways the estimated 2.6 million immigrants living in California without permission participate in state life.
An earlier version of this post said Reshma Shamasunder, director of the California Immigrant Policy Center, called for an immigration overhaul bill that laid out a path to citizenship for immigrants. She called for President Obama to take executive actions to limit deportations.
Immigrants who are in California illegally make up 38% of the agriculture industry and 14% of the construction industry statewide.
Half of the immigrants in the state illegally have been here for at least 10 years.
Roughly 58% do not have health insurance.
Nearly three in four live in households that include U.S. citizens.
USC sociology professor Manuel Pastor, who worked on the report, said it shows how integrated immigrants are into daily life in California. |
From the LA Times, still the best newspaper in California. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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boggsman, just to be clear about my view, I feel that immigration reform is the paramount point. I'm not under any illusion that the 10-20 million illegal immigrants living and work in the US will be deported. Many can become legal aliens that can live and work here, with those desirous and deserving of a path to citizenship, having the ability to earn it. However, as a part of immigration reform, the penalties for hiring undocumented immigrants need to be place to close the doors to future illegal immigration.
Regarding the need for cheap labor, folks need to be paid reasonable wages for the work they do. If there's an added cost for that, so be it. There are limits to the idea that the poor can be sacrificed at the altar of money and greed. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17747 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Let me be clear about my position. I believe that the current immigration policies were put in place under Reagan to weaken labor, particularly in organizing agriculture. I certainly don't support open borders, and agree with many who argue that illegal immigration has brought wages down.
But I have a real problem with the virulent hatred that fuels the right wing opposition to any form of reform. Read just a few of the comments on the LA Times site I posted, and you will see the hatred and racism that goes unchallenged on the right. It is impossible, legally and in terms of the impact to our economy, to export all currently here without papers. Solving that problem requires real political skills, not Tea Party amateurs. It has to give something to everybody who has a stake in reform. And it cannot be based on hatred. |
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