Forward loop help, with many videos

[30knotwind]

I am trying forward loops but am getting thrown forward without getting much rotation--very painful--maybe heading too upwind on the take off?

The attached shows a sailor heading upwind and pulling off a pretty smooth loop. Anyone want to talk me through it? Note that wind is west, from right to left. I think a lot of instructions ignore wind direction, focusing only on 'sheet in and look backward". More info needed please! (Thx Sean Aiken for your help at the Hatch today!)
http://youtu.be/EyKZxmZp0s8

[ctuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTjxJTiTmSg
The above is pretty good.
First part of this exercise tells you how to get the board
rotating in the right direction.

ABK kind of describes it as an Aerial Pivot jibe.
Sail comes across and since the board is in the air
it rotates easy.

The other thingI have heard about body position is small big small
small when you are taking off (body compressed to spring , big uncompressed to get some altitude and compressed again on landing
or compressed during landing . That's how I recall it and the pictures
seem to verify this.
some of this is suppose to add to the spin as in the spinning ice skater
who pulls in the there arms to spin faster or control the speed of the
spin.
Wheely pivot jibe as in the first video is the Remko first step.

[rigitrite]

you need to take off down wind. When you can do em really well, then you can take off upwind. You'll notice in the video, that as soon as he takes off he forces everything downwind.

If you want to master this trick, you have to build up to it. Wyatt Miller has a great progression that really works. I recommend you take a clinic with him. He can get you looping in an afternoon.

[bericw]

The epiphany for me was where the mast base is relative to body position to start the rotation and where they go from there. Steve Zacher's "sheet forward" helps set that all up http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=160127&highlight=zacher&sid=f4acde639baba4bea234620cb9bd4945#160127 check rasdpm's description. The awesome ABK instruction and Remko video posted by ctuna above are getting to the same (see PeconicPuffin's rendition of ABK, iwindsurf link somewhere), and that approach helps with the "keep feet in the straps" aspect. Body has to be over it all, not back. Think Mariah Carey and Make it Happen!

Picture being on your board moving forward on land. If you keep the mast base in line and sheet in, nothing good will happen; hard to make the mast base go anywhere. If the mast is to the "downwind" side, the sail is sheeted forward and the body is over...the body can go forward around the mast base which is arcing back...watch this happen in your vid. The mast base is downwind and lower than the body by the sail sheeted forward...bam! If you "trip" over the base directly in front, face fall. If you "trip" over it when it is downwind and out of line to direction of travel, the spinning happens. Sheeting in hard and looking back make this trip. Upwind doesn't matter if you set up correct. Carl from Whistler(?) sailed in front of me throwing and throwing and throwing and shouting...totally helped, thanks bro.

Obviously this is just my interpretation, and I am just me.

I wish you the joy of the feeling.

[ctuna]

As others have said best to try downwind at first or at least across
the wind .
Why less further to rotate.
At least that is the theory.
If you have lots of questions and you want the technical
approach go to and ABK Camp and its also useful to have
a copy of the trickionairy.

And even another article

http://www.jemhall.com/technique/item/the-forward-loop.html

[LUCARO]

I can't loop, but after 3 years of efforts I am getting much closer, but only if the ramps allow a cross wind jump. I am not yet to be able to get very far around without a ramp and trying to jump upwind, which I tried lots, results in some spectacular crashes.

The thing that seemed to help the most for me was emphasizing a backward/horizontal rotation of the back hand/clew. Prior to this, I think I was tucking my chin and kind of doing a forward roll or somersault. Which might work if you are 20 foot in the air but not if you are 12 inches in the air.

Now I just need to be able to keep both feet in the straps, and try and fly the rig once I land, instead of pulling it down on top of me.

[rigitrite]

It is no joke when you hear people who can loop tell you, “This is just about the easiest trick in all of freestyle”. There is absolutely no reason why a decent sailor can’t learn how to forward in one afternoon. But, you really should have instruction, and follow a proper progression. I did probably 70-80 timers on both tacks before I threw my first forward. Hit it on the first try. However, I was pretty confident that it was gonna work, because of all the training I’d put in beforehand.
If you fail about and just keep chucking yourself at this trick without knowing what it is that makes the rotation happen, then you’ll break your gear, which is expensive, or you’ll break yourself, which is REALLY REALLY expensive. Spend the $$$ to go to a clinic or lessons with a pro and learn it correctly.

[kevinkan]

the forward loop has been thrown into the "hard to try, but easy to do" category. i'd say the least technical way to try the forward is downwind, but it's also the scariest. most windsurfers are more comfortable jumping into the wind or at least cross-wind, but doing a proper forward into the wind requires much more technique... especially if you want to rotate more horizontally and not do and endo or cheese roll type rotation.

Without watching you try your loops, my first suggestion would be to try it on a point of sail a little more off wind than you're trying it now... don't worry as much about getting big air... just look for a small, steep piece of chop you can pop off of without having to point up to get to it.

As far as your GIF goes, the biggest thing to note is how the sailor slices the mast into the wind and gets the nose off the wind (think longboard/pivot jibe) before sheeting in. If you try the loop a bit downwind, then some of this is already setup by your point of sail.

There are lots of ways to do the loop... Sean Aiken has some of the best for sure. Josh Stone too. I sailed a few days w/ Josh in the Gorge many years ago, and he helped me w/ my cross wind loop (I had learned them downwind off the back of swell). He gave me a funny tip... he told me to look at my front hand/arm b/c I was having a tendency to pull in with both arms. He told me to punch my front hand forward and stare at my hand to lock it there as i pulled in with the back hand. In the Gorge, Josh would do most of his loops downwind... and he would plane out of 100% of them.

[ctuna]

Since they keep mentioning like a whymaroo in those training video's
http://www.continentseven.com/2002/09/04/wymaroo-diony-guadagnino/

I saw this video and it occurred to me it has all(or at least most of) the elements of a forward loop its just done downwind from a planing jibe entry . It looks like doing this would give you most of the feeling of doing a loop without the danger.
Or is the whymaroo a downwind loop?

[rigitrite]

Wymaroo's are hard....very...very hard. Technical and tricky, however, one of the coolest freestyles moves there is. (I can't do one....yet)

In my opinion, I feel like there's very little in common with a forward.