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manuel
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1158
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 Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely, I wish I had never bought a fsw board for high winds. They were kind of trendy back then but I feel like it slowed my progress and decreased my jibe success rate.
On a similar subject I have a 105l freeride board which jibes and surfs better then the fsw, same manufacturer, so the category doesn't necessarily paint the whole picture unfortunately.
Bottom line is I'd recommend an easy -not too fast- wave board for high wind lake sailing. Something that stays in control by slowing things down but that can turn sharply. If one can achieve this and still be classified as fsw then so be it but in general a fsw will be best for conditions that are generally on the weaker side. |
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zimmerdm
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| On that note: I ride an old 2000 Fanatic Goya Wave. It's 8'3", 78 liters and 53.5 wide. Looking at picking a Goya One but I'm trying to decide between the 72 liter that has the same wide point or the 78 - which is 55 wide and I suspect rides bigger. I weigh 145 and ride fresh water lakes using 3.7-4.7 sails. I've upgraded my quiver to Ezzy Elites and now I'm looking to upgrade my board. I'm leaning towards the 72 since it sounds like the general consensus is the newer boards ride bigger. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| manuel wrote: | Absolutely, I wish I had never bought a fsw board for high winds. They were kind of trendy back then but I feel like it slowed my progress and decreased my jibe success rate.
Bottom line is I'd recommend an easy -not too fast- wave board for high wind lake sailing. Something that stays in control by slowing things down but that can turn sharply. If one can achieve this and still be classified as fsw then so be it but in general a fsw will be best for conditions that are generally on the weaker side. |
I agree about the FSWs. When I was in that market a few years ago I asked several owners (especially JPs) what they thought about them. Most common response: great on smooth water, harsh on chop, most noticeable from mid-80L and up. One BIG guy liked his 90-something JP FSW until it hit chop, with emphasis on the "hit". So I researched them year by year in the mag reviews and with guys who had ridden JPs "forever". Based on that I bought a 2006 JP FSW 78. Nice, versatile, user-friendly, not as exciting as I prefer, and small enough to handle some chop comfortably.
Regarding high-wind lake sailing, which I've been doing since the mid-80s, I prefer fast wave boards .... but that's partly because I've been at it since the '80s. Early in that game, light/fast/responsive (i.e., loose 13-pound) boards were a handful for me; now I can appreciate them. They and/or I have improved in that regard. Some of them are simply that user-friendly despite being high-performance (Maui Project waves leap to mind) that any decent B&J sailor can love them. Others (JP waves, maybe my Quatro wave) are more high-strung, emphasizing speed and pro capability at a slight cost in the user-friendly column. My RRDs, both wave and FSW, lean towards those Maui Projects: high performance any good B&J rider can tap all day. |
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MalibuGuru
Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9300
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| zimmerdm wrote: | | On that note: I ride an old 2000 Fanatic Goya Wave. It's 8'3", 78 liters and 53.5 wide. Looking at picking a Goya One but I'm trying to decide between the 72 liter that has the same wide point or the 78 - which is 55 wide and I suspect rides bigger. I weigh 145 and ride fresh water lakes using 3.7-4.7 sails. I've upgraded my quiver to Ezzy Elites and now I'm looking to upgrade my board. I'm leaning towards the 72 since it sounds like the general consensus is the newer boards ride bigger. |
Don't go smaller. Especially Goya. You will find that the new 78 will feel even smaller than your old 78. |
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manuel
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1158
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| zimmerdm wrote: | | On that note: I ride an old 2000 Fanatic Goya Wave. It's 8'3", 78 liters and 53.5 wide. Looking at picking a Goya One but I'm trying to decide between the 72 liter that has the same wide point or the 78 - which is 55 wide and I suspect rides bigger. I weigh 145 and ride fresh water lakes using 3.7-4.7 sails. I've upgraded my quiver to Ezzy Elites and now I'm looking to upgrade my board. I'm leaning towards the 72 since it sounds like the general consensus is the newer boards ride bigger. |
I'm afraid that going from a Goya wave to a One may disappoint you. 3.7-4.7 is quite windy and not ideal to most fsw design.
Where do you see such small volumes on their One design? What conditions are you sailing?
Anyway it's a bit if on the thread jacking side... |
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zimmerdm
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not looking for a full wave design since 95% of my sailing is lake/river in gusty on-off midwestern winds. I do get up to Lake Superior but that's full on-shore wind driven waves with no set period. Sometimes you get to the outside and sometimes you get crushed, spit up on shore and do the walk of shame. I'm looking at 2011 Goya One's in the 72 or 78 liter range. I do see for 2014 that Goya is no longer offering the One below 85 liters.
I've been hearing that the shorter/wider designs sailed "bigger" which is why I'm looking at the 72 as well. |
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PeconicPuffin
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| manuel wrote: | | I'd recommend an easy -not too fast- wave board for high wind lake sailing. Something that stays in control by slowing things down but that can turn sharply. If one can achieve this and still be classified as fsw then so be it but in general a fsw will be best for conditions that are generally on the weaker side. |
I completely disagree, unless you're speaking for those who are still working on their jibes. I only sail FSW's in high wind, think they're wonderful in chop, excellent to jump, have no trouble jibing them, and I pretty much live on my 77 FSW once I'm lit on a 5.3. If you're still working on jibing then yes a wave board will be a little more forgiving (not much, but a little) in the turns. And yes a FSW requires more sailor input than a freeride board when lit up...it's a more reactive ride.
For anyone who has their jibes down, and/or who is looking for good height in jumps , a FSW is going to outperform a wave board. And I say this as someone whose next board purchase will be a wave board (for dedicated wave sailing.)
For anyone looking to calm down the ride of a FSW when lit, put on a smaller fin.
My FSW boards are a 2008 Fanatic and a 2005 JP.
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Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com |
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manuel
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1158
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| zimmerdm wrote: |
I've been hearing that the shorter/wider designs sailed "bigger" which is why I'm looking at the 72 as well. |
Can you try something at your spot? How would you want to improve your current board?
| PeconicPuffin wrote: | | I only sail FSW's in high wind, think they're wonderful in chop, excellent to jump, have no trouble jibing them, and I pretty much live on my 77 FSW once I'm lit on a 5.3. |
5.3 isn't really high wind unless you weigh 180/190+?
| PeconicPuffin wrote: | | If you're still working on jibing then yes a wave board will be a little more forgiving (not much, but a little) in the turns. |
FSW can differ from manufacturers, but in general they are wider, have greater flat surface underneath, and have more volume at the rear. This increases speed, stability/ease of use, the ability to carry bigger sails and jumping, however it hurts jibing and high wind control. Today's multi-fin boards are supposed to help with it but they still won't perform as well as dedicated wave boards when it's windy.
| PeconicPuffin wrote: | | And yes a FSW requires more sailor input than a freeride board when lit up...it's a more reactive ride. |
Aren't fsw boards high wind freeriders?
| PeconicPuffin wrote: | | For anyone who has their jibes down, and/or who is looking for good height in jumps , a FSW is going to outperform a wave board. |
FSW boards are great jumpers and decent mushy wave riders in light to medium winds. Anything below 5.0 and they starting hurting.
| PeconicPuffin wrote: | | For anyone looking to calm down the ride of a FSW when lit, put on a smaller fin. |
The smaller fin will help reactivity and decrease extra lift (often from stock fins), but jibing a FSW board in 4.0 winds is still difficult unless one is heavier. |
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jingebritsen
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:44 am Post subject: |
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lots of times a free ride board and a FSW are virtually identical in the smaller sizes. take the attributes of a free ride: dissect them, item by item, and compare them to any FSW. OMG, they're the same in every attribute except in name? FSW certainly sounds less vanilla than free ride.
cross over boards are typically better in onshore conditions. wave boards excel in smooth, side off and steeper wave conditions. free style boards, quite often, stink on waves.
funny how a name can "sexy up" things.
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Last edited by jingebritsen on Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PeconicPuffin
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| manuel wrote: | | PeconicPuffin wrote: | | ot;]I only sail FSW's in high wind, think they're wonderful in chop, excellent to jump, have no trouble jibing them, and I pretty much live on my 77 FSW once I'm lit on a 5.3. |
5.3 isn't really high wind unless you weigh 180/190+? |
Hence "once". I'm on the 77 from 5.3 down to 3.4. I weigh 165 lbs/75kg.
If your point is that a multi-fin wave board will stay in the water best and turn well, well yes. It's a wave board. For any given size a wave board will be stickier and turnier and slower and lower altitude than a FSW.
| manuel wrote: | | Anything below 5.0 and they starting hurting. |
No they don't start hurting. They are great boards in those conditions if you want to rip and fly. If a sailor is not well-experienced in 4.2 conditions, for example, then yes a multifin wave board will provide a more comfortable ride. It will be more tame, and I'm not using "tame" negatively. For any given sailor there are conditions that are more than exciting enough, so slowing things down and keeping the board in the water become the priorities.
| manuel wrote: | | jibing a FSW board in 4.0 winds is still difficult unless one is heavier. |
Jibing a freeride board in 6.0 conditions is difficult, until one achieves a level of skill. If you're looking for the easiest board to not fall off of in 4.0 conditions, a wave board will be the call. You seem to be confusing "easy" and "good".
If you're happy with a wave board as a high wind board in non-wave conditions, that's great. But the disparagement of FSW boards as high wind rides in this thread is silly and wrong. I know this from my own experience and the experience of the crowd of windsurfers I sail with. We are fortunate to have both bump and wavesailing available to us. All of the guys with multifin waveboards have done the "take it out in nuking bay conditions" thing. They'll sail them for 20 minutes, then go back and get their FSW's because jumping is the thing. As I mentioned earlier, I'm looking to add a wave board to my quiver. It won't be at the high-wind side of the range though...I'm aiming for an 88 liter wave board because that's where I need the most help in the waves.
Don't conflate "easiest" and "best". It depends on the skill level of the sailor and what they want to do on the water.
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Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com |
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