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Got a smaller board - Feels like i'm starting over again
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ghost1



Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 56
Location: Burlington Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:00 pm    Post subject: Got a smaller board - Feels like i'm starting over again Reply with quote

After 3 years on a 165L Starboard GO I just switched to a 125L X-cite Ride Plus. I am enjoying the speed and manoeuvrability of the new board. I have been out 3 times on it in planing conditions and have noticed four issues.

#1 Sail Size
I used to use a 6.7 NP Fusion most of the time. I notice now with the 125L board I often feel overpowered on the 6.7 when I used to feel fine on the 165L. I am finding myself dropping to a 6.2 a lot more, is this normal when using a smaller board?

#2 - Tacks
When it comes to my tacks I feel like I'm starting all over again. I used to be able to heli-tack and fast tack. I was almost doing a sort of planing tack on my old board. Now my tacks are awful. When tacking I often end up falling in whereas before I was getting really fast and good.

#3 - Pushing the nose off the wind
I find it harder to push the nose of the board off the wind. Mostly after a tack or if I suffer spin-out and round upwind. It is requiring far more effort but I'm getting used to it.

#4 - Going upwind
I am finding it harder to hold the upwind lines I used to. My old fin was 58cm and new is 40cm, is that it?

On the plus side, I find the new board planes so much easier and stays on the plane. I also am finding gybing easier as it seems like the board actually wants to gybe and feels more stable. Unlike the old board that felt more like a school bus. I'm water-starting fine and planing in the footstraps and really flying. I can handle the chop so much better, and if I hit a wave the jump is more controlled. Whereas before on the 165L if I got air it would usually result in a massive out of control crash.

Any advice is much appreciated.
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1685

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Focus on the positives. Focus on the new board, not the old one. Tacking is a delicate balance issue on smaller widths. You going from something like 90cm to 69. It's Like going from a sheet of plywood to a 2x12. Once you get used to it it will work. Any new board needs to be figured out. 3X on a new board, especially in cold Ontario Fall may have something to do with it. Winds may be a little stronger, nerves etc. X-cite should be a great step up from the GO. What is your weight?
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ghost1



Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 56
Location: Burlington Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. I am trying to focus on the positives, lol.

You are correct, I went from 90cm width to 69cm. So a lot of the time I feel I am stomping around this board too much and it doesn't react well. Today I tried a gybe and accidently stepped off the board with my back foot because I was so use to the width of the old board. It resulted in a huge crashed, haha.

The winds are a little stronger now and are very gusty. Something about the cold weather sailing doesn't put me at as much ease as the summer!

And I weigh about 180lbs.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

larger boards allow us to work on newer skill sets. smaller ones force us to hone them down to perfection.

here's a example: my speed tacks became good from resisting using weed fins. i'd have to clear them by going upwind to tack, then aborting the turn and going backward. then i'd continue on my original tack. i've since worked that technique into speed tacks with ever smaller kits. result, in a gale, i can tack an 85 liter board. i'm 215 lbs.

i have lots of windshield time to think about technique, and work on it when i spend TOW.

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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1544

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like to me that your new board is working just fine. As stated " don't focus on the old board". I would be very unhappy with a new board that sailed just like the old one. When you progress in this sport, every step is a challenge. I would put the big board away and use your JP every time out. Even in lite wind. All the questions you asked will be answered with time on the water. Your big board is forgiving of small mistake in you skill set. As you go smaller you need to make your moves quicker and be sure you on the center line of your board. If you stay with it, you will soon be looking for a sub 100 liter board. You JP will feel like your comfortable "big" board...
We here can not tell how to over come your mistakes without seeing you sail. Ask the guys at your local spot for advice. Pick one that looks like he sails like you would like to sail. Listen to what he has to say and give it a try.
To much input from to many people can be confusing. Take a week in April and go to ABK in South padre Island. Amazing place to work on your skills. Shallow warm water for miles. 80 degree air. Good food
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You did the right thing with going small. Don't stop here, get yourself a 90ish FSW board ASAP for your smaller then 6.0 sails. Smaller boards are challenging but they improve your skills rapidly you just need to believe in yourself and the rest is TOW. You'll be amazed how fast you've imroved in a year or two. There is just one simple advice I want to give you : STAY LOW!
I realized that the biggest problem that makes most intermediates sailing difficult is the way they resist the pull of the sail in some situations. Most intermediates comming from big boards do it by leaning back pulling the sail over them and this creates immediately control problems by sinking the tail ; lifting the nose and taking them out of balance. To prevent this on the short board you need to be active and bend your knees and waist to FORWARD to put the pressure on your front leg and especially on your front arm pushing the boom down and creating mastfoot pressure. Do this to make the board plane; when overpowered; gybing etc. I'll attach a picture showing me getting bent low /face to boom/ while initiating a gybe.



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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3549

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Got a smaller board - Feels like i'm starting over again Reply with quote

ghost1 wrote:
#2 - Tacks
When it comes to my tacks I feel like I'm starting all over again. I used to be able to heli-tack and fast tack. I was almost doing a sort of planing tack on my old board. Now my tacks are awful. When tacking I often end up falling in whereas before I was getting really fast and good.

#3 - Pushing the nose off the wind
I find it harder to push the nose of the board off the wind. Mostly after a tack or if I suffer spin-out and round upwind. It is requiring far more effort but I'm getting used to it.


Sounds like a front foot issue. Your 165 has way more volume in front of the mast so if you step too far in front of the mast-very common problem I see with my students-you can get away with it, but with smaller boards with less volume in front of the mast you sink the nose and over the front you go. Wrap your front foot around the mast, not in front of the mast, when going for the tack transition. With your front foot out of the way you can bring up your rear foot & place it against the mast & heel of your front foot as you transition on the tack. There are other issues that I see of students learning to tack smaller boards- not going early enough, not standing tall & spotting the exit over your shoulder, not back winding the sail-but foot work is the most common problem.

Coachg
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Ugly_Bird



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Got a smaller board - Feels like i'm starting over again Reply with quote

ghost1 wrote:
After 3 years on a 165L Starboard GO I just switched to a 125L X-cite Ride Plus. I am enjoying the speed and manoeuvrability of the new board. I have been out 3 times on it in planing conditions and have noticed four issues.


I had and still have same problems in 130 to 106 L transition.
Use your vision and stay low.

ghost1 wrote:

#3 - Pushing the nose off the wind
I find it harder to push the nose of the board off the wind. Mostly after a tack or if I suffer spin-out and round upwind. It is requiring far more effort but I'm getting used to it.


Use vision, stay low and push the nose more aggressively. When I thought that I was staying low I was not even close. Watch, Jem Hall videos his head pretty much dives under the boom.

ghost1 wrote:

#4 - Going upwind
I am finding it harder to hold the upwind lines I used to. My old fin was 58cm and new is 40cm, is that it?


Use your vision. Look where you want to go or you will go where you look.
It will help you to lean forward when going upwind. This is another key.

Good luck!
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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 1125
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:36 am    Post subject: What do you weight? Reply with quote

What do you weight?
since this effects what a small board is for you.
And what wind strengths are you going out in?
How big a fin do you have in each board?
Are you planing and comfortable in the straps and harness.
You can be sloppy on a board that easily floats you but on
a smaller board everything must be precise and well timed.
It would be a good idea to practice a lot of low wind sail handling
on the small board and learn to do backwind sailing, push tacks
etc etc. and make sure your footwork is fast and effecient
then take it to the smaller board.
When tacking a small board you pretty much have to go around when its
still planning and you have a limited amount of time to do that.
Learning to Backwind will help you get control of the sail once you
get to the other side and is good for a lot of other stuff to.
Both your fins are huge that shouldn't be an issue.
They will make it harder to learn to jibe.
How long are your Harness Lines ?
Where are you running your mast track ?
How well tuned your sail is for the conditions can also be a big
factor in feeling overpowered or in control.
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damel



Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good news!! that is a great board for where you are in your progression. At 180 Lbs this board is probably a little small but you will grow into it and enjoy sailing it forever. I had the 120L version and the board can go fast, is really fun for lay down jibes and you can throw a smaller fin and practice some of your first freestyle moves.

When switching to a smaller board the cold hard truth is all of the mistakes you make are exacerbated. On the GO you can successfully complete tacks without good technique and making a few mistakes. Even though you have a sweet new toy be sure to go back to old faithful (the GO) every once and a while. Being on a bigger board will slow things down and you will identify what mistakes you are making on the Xcite.

Everyone gave great advice: you go where your head is looking, get low, practice footwork on the big board on smaller boards your feet become just as important as the sail.

I wouldn't worry about the mast position put it in the middle it is generally in the right place for free ridding and moving it a few inches forward or back is to get top speed. More important is figuring out where your footstraps and boom height are. If you can configure the footstraps so they are inboard and there is one backstrap do that. Once you are comfortable move them outboard and you will find the board has another gear of speed.

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