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Winter sailing skills don't match my summer skills
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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 916
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joethewindsufa wrote:
what is the difference between double nylon and smooth skin
besides the $100 price difference Smile
nice sailing btw !!!

Hi Joe, Thanks!

The smooth skin is what you're used to seeing on windsurf specific suits- a wind proof and water proof outer skin that is smooth to the touch and "glossy" in appearance. It is decidedly warmer when you're up in the wind, but the material is more susceptible to nicks and tears than the nylon is.

The Nylon double skin looks more like a surf suit in appearance- airy neoprene with a dull and porous looking surface. The nylon is also waterproof and highly wind resistant, but the surface can be "soaked" in water and as such evaporative cooling seems to pull some of your heat away when you're up in the wind. The nylon is, however, quite a bit more durable than the smooth skin when it comes to regular wear and tear.

All that said- my smooth skin suit still looks A+ after three winter's worth of use. This is just my hypothesis, but I think that the suit is less susceptible to nicks and tears due to the loose cut. There isn't so much stress on the suit from the get go, so the material has a bit more room to move and give before it tears. Just my guess.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18326

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rexi wrote:
Then just sit on the board when the fingers start getting cold and shake them warm

If for no other reason, that right there cured me of cold weather sailing. Inviting pain worse than drug-free root canals or passing kidney stones is not my cup of tea ... and I don't like tea.
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isobars



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joethewindsufa wrote:
what is the difference between double nylon and smooth skin?

Double nylon (Nylon II) is cooler due to evaporative cooling. Right up there with thickness, zipper design, seal design, and skin coverage when choosing my insulation for a given session is how much of the suit is Nylon I (inside only) vs Nylon II (nylon both sides). The difference is obvious. Why chew up a $300 slickskin suit when a $35 suit (I've paid that for a new Nylon II fullsuit at Walmart) is more suitable for moderate conditions? (I've used that suit for over a decade and never nicked it.)
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2124

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Wear full 3 or 4 mm neoprene gloves and the fingers and hands do NOT get cold! (As in normal board surfing.)

2) 6 or 7mm full double lined wetsuits with hoods counteract wind chill heat loss when wet owing to their thickness, unless the temperature is below freezing point, as in snow storms or icy conditions. You can then OVERLAYER with a thin but air and waterproof kayak type cagoule. (Bouyancy jacket over that.)

3) Can only repeat, from long experience of winter sea sport, the real test of the insulative power of your gear is being able to survive comfortably (NOT feeling unduly cold) when being dumped in the icy water and having to swim back in over any length of tome. )Lost a board once, and took three quarters of an hour to swim back in on a bitterly cold day, including frequent surf dowsings.)

In short, if you come out of the water after a winter session feeling completely chilled and cold, the protection is NOT adequate, or safe! If the suit isn't thick enough, buy a bigger looser fitting one and wear more layers beneath it. Being a bit restricted does NOT prevent you twisting / turning/ bending / or hurtling about. (It's what muscles are for.)
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1594

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winter windsurfing requires frequent breaks as your hands acclimate in each session. I've yet to find perfect gloves. I do know that a thick hood helps keep my hands and feet warm.

Frequent breaks, sail with friends, focus on safety, and take advantage of winter winds!

http://www.peconicpuffin.com/the_peconic_puffin/2012/01/100-degree-rule-long-island-style.html



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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 916
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
1) Wear full 3 or 4 mm neoprene gloves and the fingers and hands do NOT get cold! (As in normal board surfing.)

2) 6 or 7mm full double lined wetsuits with hoods counteract wind chill heat loss when wet owing to their thickness, unless the temperature is below freezing point, as in snow storms or icy conditions. You can then OVERLAYER with a thin but air and waterproof kayak type cagoule. (Bouyancy jacket over that.)

3) Can only repeat, from long experience of winter sea sport, the real test of the insulative power of your gear is being able to survive comfortably (NOT feeling unduly cold) when being dumped in the icy water and having to swim back in over any length of tome. )Lost a board once, and took three quarters of an hour to swim back in on a bitterly cold day, including frequent surf dowsings.)

In short, if you come out of the water after a winter session feeling completely chilled and cold, the protection is NOT adequate, or safe! If the suit isn't thick enough, buy a bigger looser fitting one and wear more layers beneath it. Being a bit restricted does NOT prevent you twisting / turning/ bending / or hurtling about. (It's what muscles are for.)


Definitely not disagreeing with anything you said here, it's all true. The original windsurf rule is to not sail out further than you want to swim back in. Or is it don't leave wind to find wind? Smile Regardless, I used to use thick surf suits and they worked fine, but the Ianovated suit works better, in my opinion.

Regarding thick gloves- yikes, talk about forearm burn! I can only make it about 30 seconds wearing my 5mm surf gloves. Maybe I'm just weak Laughing There is zero "acclimitazation" time with the Ianovated system- you're just warm and comfortable right from the get go, without any forearm cramping or cold hand issues. Why make something that's already challenging more fatiguing and less comfortable than it has to be?

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you fix or adjust anything wearing gloves? I've had to abandon a complete rig* to get ashore when I couldn't fix some dang thing many moons ago, and often have to adjust footstraps several times when switching to booties ... very difficult in my warm shop, impossible wearing gloves or barehanded in cold water.

* Got it back a year later when a farmer found it and called the phone number on the sail.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2124

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Hodad. Was sceptical just reading about the Ianovated system, but on your practical experience of using it and recommendation, it is worth following up.

Since I've always worn 4mm neoprene (smooth skin) gloves from the earliest winter surf kayaking days, where gorilla paddle shaft grip Laughing and precise angling of blades is all important, I wasn't too fussed about straight forward boom grip, with the helpful aid of being hooked in harness.

But yes, gloves can be a bit of a bind at times (though hellish when you take them off for any reason, and that raw icy blast hits your wet fingers) so any improved method would be welcome.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use thick nitrile gloves under open palm mitts. I can roll the mitts back and have lots of dexterity with a bit of warmth or roll them on for total comfort down into the 30s. They add a little extra grip as well.
Swimming in them isn't pleasant but it's manageable so long as your core stays warm. For that I have a 7/6mm and just deal with a little loss of mobility.

I'm more likely to stretch a bigger board into higher winds cone the winter so that I can slog or even uphaul rather than swim.
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systemslib



Joined: 11 Sep 2016
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: First cold session of season Reply with quote

Wore the new 6/5/3 for the first time last Saturday, air temps around 32F with winds 15-25mph. Started sweating within 5 minutes even sailing with hood off. That was fine but as expected hands were the real issue. Had nrs toaster mitts on which were too much on both heat and grip and after 30 minutes swapped them for barehanded for another 30 but that was brutal too, so tacked back to landing and used a pair of biking gloves left in car for next 2 hours. They are synthetic full finger and even wet kept hands acceptably warm and the grip on the boom was good as barehand.

The 6/5/3 wetsuit was plenty warm, if not too warm, as did not fall in but did stop in a windbreak for 5 minutes and had to cool off in waist deep water. Back at the landing with fading light I noticed crinkling when rolling the sail, it had iced up and board was iced onto rack within a few minutes! Hands were fine in wet gloves for derig but could not get my arms out of the 6/5 as too tired to try in windy cold lot and had to drive the 10 minutes home wearing it.

Overall not bad other than hands. Going to try the dish gloves next session with a thinner inner bike glove inside. Sail performance was good, perhaps a slight bit more defensive relative to not sailing the whole lake (vs summer) and did have to take a few breathers vs summer. Popeye arms by the end for sure.
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