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Obamacare in a nutshell
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure John McCain is a very happy man right now, he's getting what he's always wanted, again, his name on the front page of every newspaper. He's never met a camera or newspaper that he doesn't love. I truly believe he's more concerned with his own legacy than anything else, one of the reasons he ran for POTUS. Come to think of it, Rand Paul ran for POTUS also, is there a connection? I think so, and it has little to do with the country or health insurance.
Really tired of self serving politicians, it's a constant pall on our government.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MalibuGuru wrote:
Why, at the barrel of a gun, with the power of law enforcement are we being forced to buy a lousy product?


So don't buy an obamacare policy. Buy another health care plan without the protection of Ocare. I know they are available to me. I don't even have to pay a penalty. There are a number of ways to opt out.

Take a chance. Get a policy under the old rules where you can lose it any any time if you get sick. Self fund your own policy. Be creative.

If you want it to be better, encourage your representatives to make a better law.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, with the "at the barrel of a gun" comment, you're sounding an awful lot like isobars. He's a big fan of using that kind of nonsense to craft his message. I have to say that it's a bit ironic that both of you guys are gun nuts.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14838
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
I'm sure Donald Trump is a very happy man right now, he's getting what he's always wanted, again, his name on the front page of every newspaper. He's never met a camera or newspaper that he doesn't love. I truly believe he's more concerned with his own legacy than anything else, one of the reasons he ran for POTUS. Come to think of it, Rand Paul ran for POTUS also, is there a connection? I think so, and it has little to do with the country or health insurance.
Really tired of self serving politicians, it's a constant pall on our government.


was that a fill in the blank form from a hate america site? note I just changed one name...

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17743
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
I'm sure John McCain is a very happy man right now, he's getting what he's always wanted, again, his name on the front page of every newspaper. He's never met a camera or newspaper that he doesn't love. I truly believe he's more concerned with his own legacy than anything else, one of the reasons he ran for POTUS. Come to think of it, Rand Paul ran for POTUS also, is there a connection? I think so, and it has little to do with the country or health insurance.
Really tired of self serving politicians, it's a constant pall on our government.


Didn't pay attention to his reasoning, did you? No hearings, no efforts to develop a bi-partisan fix for some the problems with the ACA without ending up killing people. The reason the GOP brought it back? To be able to fund a tax cut for their rich donors. Without cutting funding for the poor, Paygo limits how much they can payoff those who bribed, er contributed to them.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think long and hard about that Obamacare plan you love so much, and about two of its models, including Bernie Sanders' beloved Canadian Health Care fiasco.

1,041,000 Canadians are waiting in line for medical care. It can take weeks to even see a general practicioner there, 21 to FORTY ONE weeks beyond that to even SEE the specialist she refers you to, and up to another SIXTEEN weeks after that to get any treatment out of them. Many patients cannot work -- i.e., earn any money -- during those months to years.

Source: The Fraser Institute's 2017 update of "Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada".

I can usually select a specialist, phone him directly with no referral, and get an appointment within hours if urgent, days if it's acute, up to maybe a week or two if it's not urgent at all. Treatment often begins that day, not 16 weeks later.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14838
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Think long and hard about that Obamacare plan you love so much, and about two of its models, including Bernie Sanders' beloved Canadian Health Care fiasco.

1,041,000 Canadians are waiting in line for medical care. It can take weeks to even see a general practicioner there, 21 to FORTY ONE weeks beyond that to even SEE the specialist she refers you to, and up to another SIXTEEN weeks after that to get any treatment out of them. Many patients cannot work -- i.e., earn any money -- during those months to years.

Source: The Fraser Institute's 2017 update of "Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada".

I can usually select a specialist, phone him directly with no referral, and get an appointment within hours if urgent, days if it's acute, up to maybe a week or two if it's not urgent at all. Treatment often begins that day, not 16 weeks later.


I hope you are not going to tell me you have socialized healthcare paid for by the government....

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shit! I upgraded Chrome and Firefox today and my filters are broken. Gotta fix that ASAP.

real-human wrote:
I hope you are not going to tell me you have socialized healthcare paid for by the government....


I have VA coverage -- I paid for it by serving my country for 20 years and reimburse >90% of its compensation out of my Air Force pension -- but it is SO rife with medical incompetence (fatal in my case), SO hard to get benefits from, and defrauds its recipients SO often (watch the news) that I pay cash for three other health care insurance policies instead. I don't even get meds for service-related disabilities from the VA even though there's no copay; it's not worth the fight.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2343

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Think long and hard about that Obamacare plan you love so much, and about two of its models, including Bernie Sanders' beloved Canadian Health Care fiasco.

1,041,000 Canadians are waiting in line for medical care. It can take weeks to even see a general practicioner there, 21 to FORTY ONE weeks beyond that to even SEE the specialist she refers you to, and up to another SIXTEEN weeks after that to get any treatment out of them. Many patients cannot work -- i.e., earn any money -- during those months to years.

Source: The Fraser Institute's 2017 update of "Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada".

I can usually select a specialist, phone him directly with no referral, and get an appointment within hours if urgent, days if it's acute, up to maybe a week or two if it's not urgent at all. Treatment often begins that day, not 16 weeks later.


What, exactly, does “Obamacare” look like compared to Canada?

Not single-payer: Canadian critics tend to rail against “two-tiered” medicine, but in fact, the U.S. has a multi-tiered system. And despite the hype on both sides of the Congressional aisles, Obamacare keeps the same complex structure in place, while adding another layer through the introduction of health care “exchanges” for uninsured Americans. But the majority of Americans will continue to access care through a variety of health insurance plans made available or subsidized by their employer; nearly 50 million elderly and disabled through the federal Medicare program; another 60 million lowest-income through state-federal Medicaid arrangements.

Not universal coverage: Health care in Canada is based on a simple proposition: every legal resident is covered through a publicly-financed provincial or territorial plan. The individual mandate, derived from a Republican precedent in Massachusetts, stands in stark contrast to Canada’s universality principle. Even though Obamacare broadens coverage, the individual mandate relies on a fundamental insurance principle – care depends on type of coverage – and compels Americans to purchase insurance to access care. Americans now have more affordable insurance options and subsidies to cover their costs, and the lowest-income may be eligible for public coverage through the expansion of Medicaid. Still, despite the crush of online traffic as enrolment began Tuesday, only half of the estimated 40-plus million uninsured will be affected by Obamacare.

Not “national” health insurance: One of the hallmarks of health care in Canada is that, although each province and territory administers a health plan, everyone can expect to be covered for a comprehensive range of services, no matter where they live. And the federal government is expected to chip in to provincial coffers to make this happen. There’s plenty of intergovernmental friction as a result, but nothing like the fractured federalism of the United States. The implementation of Obamacare will further exacerbate regional and state differences, mainly as a result of the Supreme Court decision to curtail the federal government’s obligation for states to expand their Medicaid coverage. As a result, only about half of the states have chosen to sign on to the new Medicaid program.

Not equal access: There’s been some controversy in Canada lately over wait times and access to timely care, but this pales in comparison to the wide gulf that exists in access to care in the United States. Obamacare tries to address this in its provisions for insurance reform, such as lifting pre-existing conditions and limits on co-payment. But for all of the emphasis on affordable care, the new law reinforces the notion that access depends on how much you can afford, not how much you need. In the health insurance exchanges, the price of premiums will depend on your age, health, income, and on whether you opt for a bronze, silver, gold or platinum coverage. In Canada, access to necessary health care services is not a competitive sport.

Not cost containment: The sharpest critics of Obamacare argue it does little to address the fundamental challenge of cost control. The new law includes a review of Medicare reimbursement and the expansion of Accountable Care Organizations to reward cost-effective care. But it doesn’t grapple in a systematic fashion with the overall inefficiencies in health care delivery and financing, the administrative burden of multiple payers, providers and plans, and the cost pressures of defensive medicine. Governments in Canada know that health care is a searing financial responsibility, but they have at their disposal cost containment measures – monopoly fee negotiations with providers, global budgets for hospitals – that remain unfathomable in the American context.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2013/october/obamacare-vs-canada-five-key-differences
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14838
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Shit! I upgraded Chrome and Firefox today and my filters are broken. Gotta fix that ASAP.

real-human wrote:
I hope you are not going to tell me you have socialized healthcare paid for by the government....


I have VA coverage -- I paid for it by serving my country for 20 years and reimburse >90% of its compensation out of my Air Force pension -- but it is SO rife with medical incompetence (fatal in my case), SO hard to get benefits from, and defrauds its recipients SO often (watch the news) that I pay cash for three other health care insurance policies instead. I don't even get meds for service-related disabilities from the VA even though there's no copay; it's not worth the fight.


again many people who worked in the private sector for 40 years serving our nation lose their pensions all the time and have nothing because they were not on the government's dime.

Your doctrine was Canadas socialized healthcare was not as good as your good old american healthcare. It turns out you are on socialized healthcare that you were bragging about.

And again from how stupid you are, I can only hope your service was only peeling a potato as that is the only thing you could possibly do that would not have been doing more harm to our nation. You are just that stupid. If you were peeling potatoes thanks for your service if not, then I am sure we have lost millions to billions of taxpayer money with your incompetence.

No different than that incompetent idiot right winger General Flynn and General Kelly, i mean flynn and pizzagate and Kelly in charge of national security carrying his hacked cell phone to top-secret meetings, discussion for 6 months. The damage that right-wing idiot did is billions to trillions... No accountability for his actions because he is a ultra right-winger supporting a pussy grabber.

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