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Looping before the big 4.0 - crap only 6 days
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, I have been digesting the last sessions to try and understand the secret(s) of the forward loop... Very Happy

My current findings are all on my dedicated front loop quest page: http://windsurfing.lepicture.com/forward-loop/

I have landed 5 so far I think. All on 4.5, none on 5.0!

Seeing myself on video (outside of the GoPro) made me realize I was quite horizontal even though I thought sometimes I was upside down. The last piece missing was to tuck my legs under my bum and the timing of doing it.

Kevin, it was interesting to watch these videos. I sailed Coyote Point once Very Happy ! That Golden Gate bridge spot looks insane!

Disclaimer: as you know I'm a huge loop novice...

On your starboard attempt, your body moves over the board and the sail is nicely opened up. Now it looks like your front hand is a bit forward of the lines, am I wrong? Your mast is a bit back so the sail pulls you from way back and sends you a bit endo. Can you head downwind more?

On your port ones, the mast is leaning more towards the wind upon takeoff and the sail sheeted in after/near when the mast is vertical, perfect.

Away from side waves, I find it technical to setup for forwards. Driving/orienting the rig with the timing of popping/steering the board is quite something.

I'm still landing more backies and have a greater landing success rate than forwards even though I can try (have tried) way more forwards.

Somewhere along my front loop quest, I realized my loop energy level decreased dramatically with each attempt. Therefore, I quit trying them on port to focus only on starboard.

Now that I'm quite comfortable trying them on starboard, I will try again on port, it'll be a different quest!

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kevinkan



Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1559
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah basically my starboard loops are fairly rudimentary technique. i basically try to get the mast forward and sheet in. there is no raking the mast to windward nor getting the nose off the wind. I pretty much just set up on a reach and look for some ramp where i don't have to do much. I'm so port dominant that one time i tried a loop on starboard I sheeted in with the wrong hand.
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheeting in with the front arm too funny Very Happy ! Reminds me of my first tries! Nope not doing it not!

Something fascinating about the move is the more forward (in the direction of travel) the more horizontal the rotation and the more humane it feels. At least for me.

So when at the beginning we are shy about offering the rig, the rotation is more vertical and slower. Can lead to big back slaps especially when starting things off a bit back or slow.

Now working on getting more consistent landings. I'm almost forgetting about the pop and aggressively throwing the rig as far forward as possible and rotating my shoulders/back to the side. This feels the least scary of all and I'm hoping to apply this technique on my weak side.

Been getting really fast rotations and landings feel a bit harsh for my liking Very Happy ! So need to move my hands and try slowing things down once the board comes around.

What a quest seriously, fascinating!

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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really nice perspective on a spin loop. Nice to see it mirrored too.

https://www.dailydose.de/moves/videos/185/move-spinloop-15.htm

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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tips to throw them upwind. I feel stuck like I can't bring the sail across so the nose hits the water hard and the rotation is slowed down.

Yet, I feel like I'm wasting ramps. So either I need to build confidence and hit the wave sideways kinda like an aerial. Or I jump it and then do something to steer downwind a bit like a late forward.

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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1205

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jump higher and start working on stalled forwards Smile
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I understand correctly, by jumping higher the nose should clear, the rotation may be slower.

What would be the primary area of focus? Tuck back foot, turn back to the wind, steer the board upon take off?

It seems difficult for me to jump upwind and then turn downwind.

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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 973
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manuel wrote:
Tips to throw them upwind. I feel stuck like I can't bring the sail across so the nose hits the water hard and the rotation is slowed down.

Yet, I feel like I'm wasting ramps. So either I need to build confidence and hit the wave sideways kinda like an aerial. Or I jump it and then do something to steer downwind a bit like a late forward.


You'll need to focus on using perfect technique and you'll need to sail with more power if you want to loop off of an upwind ramp. The extra sail power will get you higher, which will give you more time to re-position your rig before you throw the loop. And you'll rotate faster with the extra sail power, too.

If you want to ease into it, try to steer the nose off the wind while in the air, and then get to the point where you're able to mimick your "loop stance" and rig positioning off of the upwind ramps. If that is all feeling good, then go ahead and pull the trigger on one.

So basically, you just need to go high enough that you have time to first steer to your normal loop stance and rig position, then still have enough height to pull the trigger and get most of the way around before splatting back down.

Be aware that some times your sail power will disappear or diminish by the time you get into position. If you still try to loop without the power, you'll just do a weird slow spin back down to the water. Doesn't feel great. So it's best to abort the mission if you don't feel the juice in the sail.


Also, as you expand your jumping repertoire, you'll start to learn which jumps fit into different scenarios better. Sometimes it's better to just do a rocket air than trying to force a forward loop out of a ramp that wasn't really built for it!

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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 973
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a few screen grabs from one of my lake loops last year. It isn't the best loop ever, but it might help you visualize a path to use with an upwind ramp. Here's the link if you want to see the video:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVZyGbCHIFe/



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turning upwind towards the ramp
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slight carve off the wind right at the top of the ramp to help steer
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somewhat standard "about to loop" position
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starting to pull the trigger
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trigger just pulled
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midway through
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you in your example you have lots of speed and a nice ramp. Still your front arm extends well.

"Be aware that some times your sail power will disappear or diminish by the time you get into position. If you still try to loop without the power, you'll just do a weird slow spin back down to the water. Doesn't feel great. "

I had one like this the other day, popped, threw the sail and then.... nothing I was like what??? Headed downwind, let go of the back hand, nose dived and fell off on the winward side of the sail.

And this leads me to my all-time problem I think. My front arm isn't straight at the pop. I pop and then throw my sail forward. I think I should pop while throwing the sail forward and then sheet in. Because it looks like I'm popping and then throwing the sail forward while sheeting in.

The problem with that is when I'm overpowered there's too much pressure and the sail powers up because I can send it forward enough. This leads to scary attempts.

When I don't have so much pressure I can really drive the sail forward but then don't really have the strong pull from the sail to get the explosiveness out of the loop.

It's really obvious on my weak side, and with experience I've been able to compensate on my good side but it'd explain my bailed attempts still.

Looking forward to working on the front arm during my next sessions. Does this make sense?

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