4.0 or 4.8 Aerotech WindSUP?

[ittiandro]

I wonder whether older longboard sails wouldn't still do well in subplaning on my longboard and perhaps better than today's revamped longboard sails like the Aerotech SUP sail or the Bic SUP , at a fraction of the price. .
Somebody is selling a Neil Pryde Garda 6.2 rotational sail. The seller says it is from the 90’s. The sail appears fully battened,though, which is not what the original longboard sails of the period were. The longboard sails were, from what I recall, soft sails, partially battened, if at all. This sail looks more like one of today's planing-designed sails, even though the design is definitely much older. Can anybody recognize this sail and tell the approximate year it came out?

Thanks

Ittiandro

[konajoe]

I don't think you'll be happy with the sail in the picture. You'll most likely be back to where you were with other sails. i.e. you want the sail fuller, but the battens stick out in front of the mast when you try to make it so.

[ittiandro]

I have a Bic Windsup 11.6 ft amd I weigh 85 kg. .
The winds here are about between 10-12 knts about 40% of the time, another 40% around 15 knts and rarely in the upper teens area. In these conditions, I subplane most of the time.

For a time I have been using only one sail, an old NP 6.2 Garda. Probably not the best, but it has a good latitude and I could use it to subplane both in the 10-12 knts area and in the 15+ knts area, by tuning it for lighter or stronger winds. Subsequently, I bought an 8.0 m2 HSM sail for more power, but it is basically the same as the old Garda.

I was thinking of going to an even larger sail ( a 9 or 9.5 m2 for more subplaning power in low winds or even for planing, until I heard about the Aerotech Windsup sail and I read positive reviews in this thread and elsewhere.

What surprises me is that the Aerotech Windsup sail's maximum size is only 5.6 m2. How can it be good for these light winds, when a regular 5.6 m2 sail won't even move my windsup by 1 inch, in this kind of winds? How does it compare to an 8.0 m2 in the same light winds?
Is it worthwhile to consider it in this kind of winds or it is just little more than paddling?
Please note that planing is not my 1st priority, given the conditions here, but if I could at least subplane more efficiently and a bit faster, it would make my day.

Thanks

Ittiandro

[swchandler]

When something appears to be too good to be true, beware of being foolishly taken in and wasting your time and money.

Reflecting back a bit, how is that old cambered Gaastra sail, where you modified some of the battens, working out for you?

[ittiandro]

[swchandler]

First, let me say that I have no experience with the Aerotech 4.8, but unless the sail is purposely mis-identified and measures out much larger in area, it isn't going to offer much more power than other sail brands in that size range. It certainly isn't going to generate the kind of power you would find with your HSM 8.0, or even the old NP Garda 6.2.

While your existing sails may not be designed for getting the most out of the low end, there are sails on the market that will offer more power in light winds. One feature that I would look for is a longer than normal boom length. It's my understanding that sails specifically designed for longboards would be more in line with what you might need. Also, a camber or two benefits you greatly by maintaining a large pocket in the power zone above and below the boom, and a stable cambered foil greatly improves windward performance in all conditions. Lastly, a sail design that has a tighter than normal leech will definitely work to your benefit (I believe that your old NP Garda has an adjustable leech tightening string feature just above the clew).

In closing, I would say that going larger and larger in sail sizing comes with a number of downsides. No doubt, waterstarting and uphauling sails over 8.5 can be quite a chore, and they can be heavy to handle, particularly going to and from the launch site. One needs to be more athletic to get the most out of what they offer. Then there's the high cost of good masts and booms. Going with low carbon content masts and aluminum booms really isn't the way to go with jumbo sails, and you'll suffer for it if you go the cheap route.

Lastly, big sails requires big fins, particularly when looking for low end power in light winds. You have to ask yourself how big a fin will the Bic Windsup comfortably handle. I'm thinking not much bigger than 50cm, and that's arguably a bit small for a 9.0 or larger sail.

[gregnw44]

This is entertaining... or frustrating, LOL... depending on free time to read posts. Here we go again...
ittiandro - "why on earth would this post interest you"? Because yesterday you said -
< Brinhkaufman in this thread seems to rate it very positively, though, even the smaller Aerotech 4.8… >

You don't know him. You don't have any idea what he means by this... what his perspective is, etc. You don't know if he has the same goals as you do. You don't know how your sailing skills and experience compare, or what wind speeds you're both sailing in. Flat water or ocean sail, etc.
He is making a very general comment. You can not take anything specific from his statement, and apply it to any of your details.

I think you've already learned about different sail designs, right?

Anyway, if you have a question about something very specific, that someone posts here... I would suggest you ask them directly with a personal message. Because none of us know everything about him or you... therefore we can not interrupt the mystical meaning of this, and how it would apply to you. None of us know each other... or everything about our sailing experience or skills or goals or sailing weather conditions. So we can not guess what these general statements mean.

I know about this particular sail... and if you have a specific question, I am happy to answer it.
Thanks

[ittiandro]

[gregnw44]

My apologies for the "attitude"... it was late, I was tired... somewhat mis-spoke.
Please disregard. And, sorry, again.

And yes, I can tell you more about the Aerotech Windsup, it's a great sail for it's many intended uses. But I'm busy right now with family and work... so will touch bases back here in a couple days
Thanks -

[ittiandro]

I’ll put the Aerotech question on the back burner for now. This option was (and still is ) one of a few others I am considering to improve the subplaning performance of my Windsup.

One of them would be changing board, but I wouldn’t go for a regular shortboard, because even the best light-wind shortboards are sluggish in sub-planing and in light winds it takes a lot of work to get them planing.( pumping)

I was thinking instead of longboard-type board like a 2nd hand Kona One. I believe it is a better performer ( and light-winds performer) than the Bic Windsup, both for subplaning and planing. If not a Kona One, it would have to be 350 cm long or more, reasonably stable, probably no less than 70 cm.


Until I find a good deal ( there are not too many around here) I was wondering whether in the meantime a larger fin would help on the Bic Windsup..

I have already replaced its original Dolphin fin with a regular windsurfing fin (a weed fin) and it is a lot better. It is around 35 cm long, but a bit back swept, though, which may reduce its effectiveness (lift).

May be a longer, more vertical fin would help, but I hear some caveats regarding putting too long a fin on a Bic Windsup , because their fin boxes( U.S. Box) are designed for SUPing and may not be strong enough to take the stress of a longer fin…..How long can I go on a fin for the Windsup, considering that I'd be mostly subplaning in light winds ?

Another point I want to raise is to what extent the nominal narrow width of a board is an indicator, per se, of its stability.

I have sailed a 65 cm wide Mistral, and I didn’t feel comfortable at all. Very tippy.
The Kona One is about 70 cm, not much of a difference, but I was wondering if the stability of the board is also determined by other parameters.
I remember my first board in the early-mid 90’s, a true longboard (like they all were in those days) . I can’t remember the brand, other than it was made in Sweden. Heavy as hell, much narrower than the 80 cm Bic and yet very stable.. Could its design,shape and the volume distribution have had anything to do with its stability?

In other words, if we have two boards of the same width, length and volume, for instance, would they offer the same felt stability if the designer had distributed the volume differently along the hull in each of them?


I wonder if anybody has comments

Thanks

Ittiandro