myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
4.0 or 4.8 Aerotech WindSUP?
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: 4.0 or 4.8 Aerotech WindSUP? Reply with quote

I have the 5.8 Aerotech WindSUP sail and the 10-6 BIC Ace-Tec Wind.

I am 160lbs. and found the 5.8 WindSUP sail had too much power when the wind is gusting to 20MPH.

It is interesting because with a regular sail and board the 5.8 would have been fine, but these WindSUP sails have a lot more low end pull it seems. I even outhauled it until it was almost flat, but it still was too much power.

So my question is, should I get the 4.0 or 4.8 WindSUP, or should I not even be sailing a WindSUP sail when it is gusting to 20MPH?

At my local launch spot, I have to rig the sail in the water, and the WindSUP easily does that where a regular sail would not be so easy to rig in the water, so I would prefer to get another WindSUP sail if possible.

I am leaning towards the 4.8, but wondering if anyone has experience with a 4 or 4.8 WindSUP sail in different wind conditions?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3223

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the windsup sails are meant for non-planing conditions.

you may wish to switch to a 5.2 charge for that much wind.

http://www.aerotechsails.com/charge.html

_________________
www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
http://www.seanski.com/


Last edited by jingebritsen on Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:42 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18397

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never mind this first (Italicized) paragraph; it was written before I looked at that windSUP "sail". This is a learning curve issue, as a 5.8 is barely enough power for planing at 20 average with much higher gusts. I'd spend more time getting comfortable with the 5.8 before complicating my quiver and spending the money. IOW, with some practice you'll not only quickly grow into the 5.8 for wind gusting to 20 but wanting the 5.8 for days when the lulls are 20. I can't even plane consistently on a 6.2 when it's averaging 20, and wouldn't even bother trying to sail if it was only gusting to 20 because at 170 I'd very seldom plane.

Try this instead: you need a 6.2 or thereabouts windsurfing sail.

No stable 4.8 sail has the power of a 5.8 windsurfing sail. Your sail's problem is not too much power as it is lack of stability; those Starboard windSUP sails are little more than expensive bedsheets, not designed for gusty OR planing conditions. Given your desire to plane, you would not BELIEVE the difference an actual windsurfing sail would make, and Oahu has to have tons of used gear lying around.

And "should" is not in our lexicon. WSing is more about "wannas" than "shoulds". If you wanna sail your windSUP on a given day, enjoy. I pretty much hadda sail my (strapless) windSUP all last season because of an injury, and quickly learned to enjoy it in winds averaging mid 30s and gusting well into the 40s.

Mike \m/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen, I am using a 10-6 BIC Ace-Tec Wind. It is their SUP/Windsurfing Board and it works great for catching waves.

isobars, I agree these sails are less stable, but would it be stable enough to punch through the waves and then catch another wave in? That is what I want to do, I am not looking to cruise over the water at high speeds.

The convenience of a sail that takes 1 minute to rig in the water means the difference between going or not going for me. My only other option is to figure out how to transport an already rigged regular sail to the water.

If I had the time I would go to the beach every day, rig a regular sail, and go out, but that takes more time to get there, more time to rig and de-rig, and time to chat with others while there.

I am concerned though that the 4.8 will be unstable and hard to sail in gusty conditions, even though it is smaller.

This type of sail is hard to understand because not many have used it in various conditions.

Where I sail, I am the first and only one at this time riding a WindSUP, so there is no one to ask for advice on how it works.

I know despite the sail, catching waves continually with the WindSUP was a blast.

Because I was using a sail and not a paddle, I can catch swells long before they even get close to the lineup of surfers, and my rides are much longer too.

Plus there seems to be no waiting for the perfect wave, every time I got out there I was able to catch the next wave going in, and I can stay out of the way of the surfers.

I still need more experience with it, but I know I caught more waves then I ever had with a paddle, so I am pretty excited about the possibilities.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 8756

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"At my local launch spot, I have to rig the sail in the water"


Why? Is it a convenience thing about the time spent, or is it something more unusual?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler, I use an Ocean Access near my home and there is no beach. If I don't rig in the water, I have to rig on someone's front lawn, which I do not have permission to do.

Even if I rig on their lawn, which I have done before, I have to get the sail down some rocks into the Ocean, and that is not easy and I got a nasty cut one time doing that plus tore the padding on my boom.

It is a popular launch spot for SUP and other types of paddling toys because they don't need a beach for setting up, they throw them in the water and they go.

It is also a convenience thing too. I want to be Windsurfing as fast as possible, and when done I want to be back as fast as possible.

Having a rig that sets up and goes down in under 1 minute is very convenient.

I like the feel of the 5.8 WindSUP in the right wind. It has a lot more pull then a regular 5.8 when you get started. It feels lighter than a regular 5.8 when uphauling or moving it around, yet has the pull of a 6.5 or 7.0 to get you started on the wave.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3223

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry, i brain farted about the sentence that included the board disclosure.

i am happy that you prefer wind SUP vs paddling. i think any wind oriented people should explore this. it is rather sad to see so many refusing to even try it. we catch 20 + to one waves vs surfers, and 10+ to one versus SUP.

dunno why using a sail is considered so kooky, but i have long since given up on all these fashions in humanity....

in direst response to the OP. a smaller sail might serve, but the nature of the sail will never as stable as a high performance, planing oriented sail. try the 4.0 size.

_________________
www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
http://www.seanski.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18397

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Punching through waves, caching them, and getting to and from them are still enhanced by a stable sail. A CEO -- Center of Effort, aka “draft” … the sail’s aerodynamic center of power … that shifts with every slight change in the wind direction or speed is going to fight you constantly. It should be the sailor, not the sail, who determines the momentary percentage of available power he’s tapping (largely by sheeting angle).

But the key to your entire criteria is that “a sail that takes 1 minute to rig in the water means the difference between going or not going” bit. None of the rest of really buys that (it’s been discussed before), but until you figure out how to rig faster or recognize the rewards of a more stable sail, getting on the water beats not getting on the water … sometimes. The world’s other 1,457,383 windsurfers do just fine taking 3-4 minutes to rig. You can, too.

If by “transport to the water” you meant “on the highway”, I’m sure that three of those 1,457,383 drive box vans with rigged sails inside, but they’re out at 10 sigmas somewhere. The other 1,457,380 put their pants on one leg at a time and rig at the shore.

Your having to rig in the water seems odd; maybe this will help. Carrying a rigged sail on land under 7.5m or so is a simple, one-handed (even no-handed, if you want to devote that hand to carrying something like a helmet or lunch), fairly effortless if it’s breezy, operation, leaving your other hand free to carry anything up to and including an unhooked small board. Here’s how I do it:
1. Orient the rig on the ground with the mast more or less across the wind, clew downwind, tack (bottom of the rig) headed in the direction you want to carry it.

2. Stand beside and upwind of it near mid-mast, facing the way you want to go.

3. Reach down with the hand near the rig, place that hand and forearm through the front of the oom until that hand extends past the mast. That wrist, or the back of that hand, should now be in front of the mast, with that upper forearm pressed against the boom.

4. In one motion, forcefully straighten that elbow to leverage the boom and clew clear of the ground, stand up, and start walking. Any breeze will support the sail so you’re just taking a walk in the park; no breeze and extra effort will be required if you don’t want to drag the clew on the ground.

4. Once you get used to this, the whole process is so quick that you can just walk past the sail without even stopping, scooping it up in this fashion as you pass by.

You say you want to plane but not at high speeds.
A. This, too, shall pass, as your confidence, skills, and goals evolve.
B. Speed is relative … i.e., undefined.
C. Only a serious racerhead would call planing “slow”.

Go earlier. Stay later. Chat while rigging. Phone ‘em. If your wind is so reliable that there’s never time to chat, you should be an outstanding sailor very quickly, like that Robby dude that preceded you by 35 years.

Sure, you could make those baggy windSUP sails propel you, but there’s a reason no one else is doing that: they suck in anything even close to planing conditions. Save them for quick’n’dirty light air sessions when planing is out of the question.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18397

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you requested permission to rig on the lawn? No one's ever denied me yet, but then I wasn't the head of a 100-man camel.

Yeah, yeah, I know ... I'm the OTHER end.

I don't know how well my rig-carry technique would work on your ripraprocks. Depends on balance, footing, wind, waves, other options, and risk tolerance. Maybe you could throw the rig into the water, then derig before you get out. Gotta ask the obvious question: how do you get out to take a break (eat, bathroom, chat, rest, whatever)?

You'll get over that "convenience" hangup once your sailing improves. Do you have any idea how many of us drive 50 to 200 miles each way for an afternoon on the water? In NM that included full-blown blizzards in the winter because our heated lake was on the other side of the Continental Divide. WSing is probably the least convenient sport I've ever tried, including driving 180-250 miles each way to go dirt biking every Sunday. We didn't have to rig our dirt bikes, but it took >30 minutes to strap on all the protective gear, and maintenance consumed one or two evenings midweek.

And you'll get over that uphauling thing soon enough. I haven't even carried an uphaul on my rigs since maybe 1990.

There is no free lunch.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate all the feedback and suggestions.

I purchased the 4.8 and will update this thread again or start a new one once I have had a chance to sail it a number of times.

Just my comments on some of the comments.

"dunno why using a sail is considered so kooky"

I believe it does not look kooky, it is just a lot harder. For example, I took two friends SUPing a week ago. They both tried it for the first time and stood up fine in the canal where it is calm and they loved it. I don't have the right size sail for them to try WindSUP, so I can't even introduce it to them. If I try them on my 5.8 I am sure they will never do anything but fall off, and that is not fun.

Hopefully some places are renting WindSUPs with small sails to give people a taste of what it feels like to go with the wind vs. paddle. That is the only way I could see someone getting hooked. Unfortunately here there is no rental option, so no one is being introduced to it.

Sure, you could make those baggy windSUP sails propel you, but there’s a reason no one else is doing that: they suck in anything even close to planing conditions.

The reason no windsurfers are doing it is it is risk in terms of spending a lot of money and then finding out you don't like it. I finally decided to take that risk and I am very glad I did. It is a whole different feeling catching all these waves vs. blasting over the water at high speeds. Not that I don't like blasting too, I do, but this is a heck of a lot of fun and if I can get on the water more and like it just as much, if not better, then that is a good thing.

This is a fairly new sport I believe, the combination of a SUP board and WindSUP sail. I don't even find it listed in Wikipedia. However, just because it is very new and no one is doing it does not mean it sucks.

I have a feeling the surfers and SUP paddlers that watch me catch waves continuously way past the break where they sit waiting for the waves might be thinking that looks like fun. That being said, the equipment might still be a hang up for them, as a sail is more expensive and harder to rig than a paddle or using their hands.

You'll get over that "convenience" hangup once your sailing improves.

Not sure how convenience and improved sailing go together. I can blast with the rest of them on a small board and wave sail or Freeride sail, and it is a lot of fun, but it is not as convenient.

To those that drive 200 miles each way and through a blizzard I apologize. I know from your perspective my convenience thing looks like I am very spoiled. For me the difference is being able to get a quick session in during a work day before lunch, or having to say I am taking off a few hours in the morning to sail. It is just harder to get away for a few hours.

I tell my wife that Windsurfing is my gym workout. Others might go to the gym every day or every other day, I want to get my exercise on the Ocean.

As someone who grew up surfing in New Jersey and it took 1 hour or more to get there and back, I do feel spoiled out here, especially when it is the middle of the winter and the water is still comfortable.

Gotta ask the obvious question: how do you get out to take a break (eat, bathroom, chat, rest, whatever)?


I go 1 hour, so I don't need a break. If I get really tired and need to rest a bit I can lay down the sail and sit on the board to catch my breath, but I drink and eat before I leave and then when I get back again.

There seems to be a fair amount of negativity towards the WindSUP sail, and that might have made me hesitate to buy one for a while. I think you really have to see what type of sailing you want to do. If you want to catch a lot of waves, or you want something as an alternative to paddling your SUP, the WindSUP is a much cheaper and easier to rig solution.

Also, some of the negativity might be coming from those who have not actually tried a WindSUP Rig in the waves, or compared it to paddling.

If you want to blast as fast as you can go, or wave ride at Hookipa, then it is not the right choice, but in many situations I could see it being a much better choice.

I would like to thank the Reef Warrior's blog for getting me to take the plunge into WindSUP sailing. This quote kept me thinking about it.

So this time i paired up the 4.8 Sup sail, with the Wind SUP board. I cranked up wind in no time to Dead Mans bay and caught waist high set after set, down the line wave sailing, just smacking lips and carving waves for hours. It was some of the most fun I have had in the 19 years of windsurfing.

http://reefwarriors.wordpress.com/2012/05/13/more-11-8-wind-supaction/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 1 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group