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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:42 am Post subject: |
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"Do I support waterboarding? Yes"
Twisting words? No, just noting what you said. There is no question about whether waterboarding is torture, despite your comments otherwise. |
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KGB-NP
Joined: 25 Jul 2001 Posts: 2856
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Torture: "reading through any of bajaDean's posts"
There, did it, end of conversation. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:09 am Post subject: |
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beaglebuddy wrote: | Where I draw the line is doing this to our own citizens vs some muslim we captured (citizen or not) |
Even if that citizen left and renounced the U.S., converted to Islam, and joined the jihad as an enemy combatant? |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17742 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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It never ceases to amaze me that you supposed protectors of liberty ignore the Constitution when you simply want to be cruel. |
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KGB-NP
Joined: 25 Jul 2001 Posts: 2856
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beaglebuddy
Joined: 10 Feb 2012 Posts: 1120
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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isobars wrote: | beaglebuddy wrote: | Where I draw the line is doing this to our own citizens vs some muslim we captured (citizen or not) |
Even if that citizen left and renounced the U.S., converted to Islam, and joined the jihad as an enemy combatant? |
I'm fine with torturing someone like that |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17742 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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True conservatives have some idea about the Fifth Amendment:
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Fifth Amendment: Due Process
The government may not deprive citizens of “life, liberty, or property” without due process of law. This means that the government has to follow rules and established procedures in everything it does. It cannot, for example, skip parts of trials, or deny citizens their rights as protected by the Bill of Rights and by law. This protection helps to ensure justice.
Due process protection has its roots in the Magna Carta when King John promised that “[n]o free man shall be taken or imprisoned … or in any way destroyed, nor will we go upon him nor send upon him, except by the lawful judgment of his peers or by the law of the land.”
The language of this amendment is echoed in the Fourteenth Amendment’s Due Process Clause. |
Neo-conservatives seem to exempt those they disagree with from their Constitutional rights. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 4161
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think the key word here is "citizens". I don't think there were or are any US citizens behind bars in Gitmo. |
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uwindsurf
Joined: 18 Aug 2012 Posts: 968 Location: Classified
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
The 5th Amendment uses the word "person", not citizen. The US Supreme Court has ruled that Gitmo detainees were entitled to due process under the 5th Amendment. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17742 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Now there's a vision of American values sure to inspire other countries to emulate us. We honor the Fifth Amendment, but only when it is convenient. When it is not we look for loopholes, and then suspend it for the suspicious and non-citizens--no matter what the Supreme Court says.
You guys aren't really conservatives at all. |
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