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Is strong downhaul always recomended?
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 294

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject: Is strong downhaul always recomended? Reply with quote

Since I sail mostly in light winds, my overriding concern is not to waste ANY wind power. From this perspective I wonder whether one should not make an exception to the “ golden” rule of a strong downhaul, which is normally strongly recommended..
In fact, when sub-planing in light winds, (12 knts or so) having the top of the sail loose down to the 2nd panel through a strong downhaul, as normally recommended, combined with a loose leech, unnecessarily depowers the sail, I think. This may explain why I always have to use very large sails ( 8.5 +) in order to get going in light winds.
However I am caught in a sort of catch 22 situation, because when I try to keep the downhaul to a minimum in order to have a tight leech, then the sail becomes very hard to rotate. Perhaps this is the lesser of the two
evils, after all, because I can always push out the sail with one hand. But even if it didn’t fully rotate, I wonder, would a sluggish rotation be a serious problem, compared to spilling precious wind?
I wonder whether any body has comments on this

Thanks

Ittiandro
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depens on the sail design. My Kona 9.0 sail works well with very little DH, but you need to rotate it manually. The sail is designed to be used in different modes, planing and subplaning. I wouldn't use my Ezzy 7.5 with that little DH, it doesn't like it.

You are right that the loose leach dumps power, but it offers a much smoother ride. Sails that need a loose leach are often twitchy without enough DH.

Maybe you need a subplaning specific sail to be happy? I do... I use a 6.0 soft and light Dacron sail for very light wind and a 9.0 Kona for better subplaning conditions or mixed conditions. I also have a 9.5 Lion that I use when I expect to plane most of the time.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Is strong downhaul always recomendd? Reply with quote

ittiandro wrote:
I wonder whether any body has comments on this

Me! I DO:! Hey .. over here!
No surprise, right?
I've tried that with many mid-sized sails, say from 5.2 to 7.5, and just don't like the wooden, unresponsive, top-heavy feel of a sail with deliberately light downhaul. I don't mean WAY too little, just less than optimal. That aft-most 1/3 of a sail is not meant to produce power; its job is to help the "exhaust" exit the foil with minimal drag. Sails can, of course, be designed to work well with snug leeches, but even then there are drawbacks, and sails not designed for that tuning regime really exacerbate those drawbacks when so tuned.

I don't mind over-downhauling when it's too late in the evening to rig a smaller sail; that depowers the rig with no obvious downside unless the leech starts fluttering, which can damage it. But too much drag up high just makes a sail behave weirdly for me. May as well hang a sweat shirt off the top of the mast, IMO. Too much power up high ... a Tee shirt.

When I need more low-end power and don't want to rig bigger, I slack off the outhaul, even it it lets the sail touch the booms. World-class sail designers can and will debate letting the sail touch the boom 'til the cows come home, but it often beats the pants off going ashore and rigging a bigger sail and I've never lost a race against Anders, Antione, or Finian yet with my sail touching my booms. Very Happy

Mike \m/
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1549

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check your sail specs. Rig according to what they say. That said, Under down hauled sails tend to feel powerful but are heavy feeling, slow, hard to rotate and unstable. I find with most sails it best to down haul at least to middle setting and play with outhaul for more power. It will feel more responsive and stable with less drag. The bigger the sail the more crucial the proper down haul becomes
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 989
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sailing a long board, or a light wind planing board (formula, free-formula)?

For light wind planing boards, you want to downhaul the sail properly (loose leech) because the sail needs to be tuned for planing. Work on your pumping skills and use a large enough sail with an adjustable outhaul. If you don't downhaul enough, the sail will not pump properly and it will not settle in once planing.

If you're on a long board with no chance of planing, then you can ease the downhaul to tighten the leech, but you still need to consider that the sail needs adequate downhaul to keep the fabric in the luff tight and allow the sail to rotate properly.

sm
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a middle setting which is the best one for light wind. The easiest way to find it is when you DH to the max and then release just enough to put your index finger thru the lines tightly between the pulleys.Two fingers loose is the minimum DH setting which is never recommended btw. You need at least that medium amount of DH to help the board lift and get planing easier.
What else you can do to increase your planing threshold is to put just a tiny bit of outhaul; keep your boom shoulder high or up and move the mast foot a finger back from center in order to keep the rig as upright as possible.
The rest is technik- body upright and stiff; arms extended holding the boom with fingers only and overhand grip; hands near the harness lines espatially the front one so you don't choke the sail but also the back one so you don't oversheet. Back leg slightly bent and the front one straight pushing down with the toes and lifting the heel to keep the board flat. Shlog upwind and look upwind until you spot a gust at which point you turn the board deep downwind and throw a pump or two. If you are still not going you better go get yourself a beer.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

caution when using cambered sails. the batten tips tend to break when one does not have enough down haul.

there are many clues one gets when one sails with too little down haul. a top heavy feel has been mentioned.

another more interesting sensation is when a gust hits and the planing hulls feel like they are being driven straight down into the water. as if there was a hand of god (wind god of course) pushing the tip of the mast and the entire kits straight down into the water.

the lack of acceleration is also notable. getting pulled out of the foot straps is yet another.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep --- like a well-known tight-leeched jump sail tuned for big air when used on a low-volume sinker.
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well ittiandro,

There is a very simple answer. Read the rigging guide for your sail. What works for one sail won't necessarily work for another sail. And the guides sometimes change from year to year as the sail designers tweak their designs. So look for the rigging guides for each of your sails. Brand, model, and year. Hopefully, you have a guise that has visual indicators instead of just luff and boom lengths.

In the end, would you rather trust your sail designer or someone on a forum?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me ... depends on what I'm after. The sail tuning tips we've seen here are educational, widely applicable, and so far remarkably consistent, and I've seen some laughable tuning instructions from manufacturers. Every little bit helps.
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