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mark



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brynkaufman2,

I am thinking about getting a 7.5 Zephyr for my Kona. I am interested as to how much larger your 7.5 Zephyr is than your 7.5 Cheetah. Could you roll out the 2 sails with the Cheetah on top of the Zephyr for a comparison and take and post a picture?

The longer luff length on the Zephyr is somewhat misleading because the head angles are quite different. The top edge of the Zephyr is about 90 degrees to the mast and the tip of of the top batten is lower than the tip of the mast. The Cheetah on the other hand angles up to where the tip of the top batten is above the mast tip. I am guessing that the 7.5 Cheetah might actually have a bit more area near the head but the Zephyr has more area down low due to the longer boom length.

If you look at the profiles of both on the Ezzy website you can see what I am talking about. However it is a bit hard to tell just from the profiles without knowing how long the top battens are.

A picture with the two sails on top of each other would be the best comparison.

Thanks
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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 305

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, I use the same mast and extension settings for both sails. You can see the difference in the boom settings from the Ezzy website.

I agree it would be interesting, although don't think we will come to any major conclusions by laying them out like that. If I had a way to measure the force generated at a certain wind speed that would be more interesting. My gut tells me there is a lot more power coming from this sail, but I have no scientific proof.

Not sure I am ready to lay them out and publish that photo on the internet. David Ezzy has been really helpful to me and I love using Ezzy sails. I don't want to be part of a viral photo where people might have negative things to say about Ezzy sails.

There was already a comment that I do not agree with stating "Ezzy is selling a lie and purposely trying to deceive the public." I don't want to get to into it and be the source of more of these type of comments.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2173

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just today realised how conditioning affects us. (Kona 7.0 sail - gentle easy summer day play about - where I wanted, how I wanted, on a flattish offshore wind day.)

Since buying the Kona 10 years ago, there's always been a nagging feeling that, compared to old longboards, it was a little lacking. I suddenly realised why.

Like all shortboarders I'm conditioned to feel that speed in the straps should be in the 25 to 30 m,p,h. range. Yet today, I was planing the Kona and the 7.0, perfectly balanced at comfortably at real ease in straps and harness at speeds of only 15 to 19.3 m.p.h. (Garmin check.) That was the difference. (Of course it will go faster in higher winds with bigger sails, but that's not the point.)

The Kona is the only longboard I've had that does that in such comfort. (The step tail.) On old longboards it always felt more balanced and less of a strain in harness but out of the far back straps for any length of time. As I came back in to land, still happily and comfortably in the straps at the lowish planing speed, a stronger prolonged gust suddenly shot the speed up to 'normal-ish' and I had to admit what a remarkable board the Kona step tail really is. Fast or slow, always feels in balance.

Mine originally came with the 40 fin, but I upgraded to the 45 when they started fitting that. For me, it proved perfect, and allong with the step tail for planing, makes the board spot on! If only it had an adjustablre mast track! (I know - but I can't afford it.)

P.S. Sorry for typing errors but broke my reading glasses, and temporarily using old fuzzy ones.
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I had originally posted on this thread about which sail to use on my Bic Windsup for very light winds, flat water ( even down to 10-12 knts).

I eventually got a good deal on a HSM Maui 8.0 and I havenít looked at this thread ever since. My 8.0 moves me around a bit slow, but it is alright.

I was now considering either to get a board with a better light winds performing or using a larger sail ( a 9.0) on my Bic Windsup, to gain more power and speed in the same winds. .

Regarding the sail, I never thought that a sail as small as a 7.5 ( HSM Summerfreak) or even smaller ( Aerotech 5.6) can do the job in 10 knts, when my 8.0 is just enough..( I weigh 85 kg).

The only drawbacks would be either going to a longer mast (490 cm ) and/or a wider boom
Perhaps I can get away with a longer mast extension ( my current one is 46 cm max) or with a sail design that allows me to keep my current 230 boom.

It seems to me Tthat the most logical ( and safest) solution would be to go for a 9.0 m2, unless other smaller sails REALLY do perform just as well as a 9.0 , like possibly the Summerfreak or the Aerotech.

Any comments?

THanks

Ittiandro
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3208

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

banana rocker surfing SUP's typically only plane in gales.

no matter how much extra sail one applies to these type of boards, especially in low winds, no planing will result.

if one wishes to plane in light winds, one needs a flatter rocker. or a foil.

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www.exocet-original.com
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http://www.epicgearusa.com/
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 2865

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you will be disappointed if you go to a 9m sail. If you need a new mast or boom to rig a 9.0, then you will be even more disappointed. As I said, with the right board, the 9.0 may be the difference in planing or not planing, but for the windsup, don't bother with a bigger sail.

The small differences between an 8, 9, or 10m sail is BIG for racing, but negligible for light wind cruising.
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bmoore98



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My recommendation is do not buy any larger sails. Instead look into windfoiling. I wish I had discovered foiling before I bought all of my light wind sails and boards. Iíve been foiling for almost two years and the largest sail I need now for Windsurfing or windfoiling is 7.5.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 685
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good comments to ittiandro here by knowledgeable veterans!!

But I'll add something else, cause in the other thread he has said more than once... that "his only goal isn't just planing". He says he'll be happy just to go a bit faster, while sub-planing.
I can relate to this, cause where I usually sail, there is no planing. (Note - I (200 lbs) bought an LP foil in May. But we don't get many summer days with 10 knot wind, so not much foiling for me yet.)

Anyway, back to him, yes he will go faster on his 215L Bic Windsup (that has a small centerboard) with a bigger sail than his 8m. He is 187 lbs.
He's talking about a 9m sail... but that isn't enough difference from his 8m sail.
With bigger sails, you need and can handle easily, bigger spacing. I would suggest at least a 9.5 (or even a 10m sail).
YES, you will need a bigger mast and boom for these sails. But that's the way it goes with big sails... you need BIG masts and boom... that's why they make these things!

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Greg
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:
Good comments to ittiandro here by knowledgeable veterans!!

But I'll add something else, cause in the other thread he has said more than once... that "his only goal isn't just planing". He says he'll be happy just to go a bit faster, while sub-planing.
I can relate to this, cause where I usually sail, there is no planing. (Note - I (200 lbs) bought an LP foil in May. But we don't get many summer days with 10 knot wind, so not much foiling for me yet.)

Anyway, back to him, yes he will go faster on his 215L Bic Windsup (that has a small centerboard) with a bigger sail than his 8m. He is 187 lbs.
He's talking about a 9m sail... but that isn't enough difference from his 8m sail.
With bigger sails, you need and can handle easily, bigger spacing. I would suggest at least a 9.5 (or even a 10m sail).
YES, you will need a bigger mast and boom for these sails. But that's the way it goes with big sails... you need BIG masts and boom... that's why they make these things!


Judging by other comments the issue is a wide, rockered board that just pushes too much water to glide well.

As you well know (this is more for the audience) a proper longboard doesn't need a lot of power to get very good sub-planing speeds.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 916
Location: Montrťal

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if ittiandro aka Franco could handle a 70 cm wide board - all would be solved
then longboards, K1/Kona and others would glide and sub-plane him
into the sunset Smile

with 8 meter sail - or larger ...
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