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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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 Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think that anyone is celebrating late term abortions, but it is quite clear to me that there are some folks that are boldly attempting to leverage opinion and support by playing up the theatrics and guilt. The video is infected with that kind of sick drama. It's really quite sad that religious ideologues willfully promote guilt in their community and prey on those that have "sinned" in the face of God by killing one of his children. It's the weight of that kind of indoctrination and guilt ridden conscious that continues to burn for those that misstep and make unacceptable choices.
Just listening to mrgybe's view you can feel the deep ugliness that he's nurtured and twisted for folks that see things differently than he does. In his world, I'm sure that there is a steep price to be payed for any kind of abortion procedure. I wonder what he would do if he found out that a women in his extended family was contemplating having an abortion. How would he deal with it?
Reiner NP, I too have women in my family that have had abortions in the distant past, even one before Roe vs. Wade. It's not for me to judge and condemn, particularly as a man. It's a woman's choice, and I respect their freedom to make a personal decision whether to have a child or abort it. I have no doubt that it's a difficult choice, but it shouldn't have to be made under the oppression of guilt and judgment from others with a negative religious agenda. Of course, if the latter choice is made, it's prudent to make the decision very early in the pregnancy. I think that if there was less guilt and condemnation being heaped on women for having an abortion, they would fare better over time. The time for having a child should be right and purposeful, because that more readily produces a positive outcome and ensures the kind of family support and interest that a growing child needs. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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mrgybe said: | Quote: | techno900 wrote:
Righties banging their heads against the door.......etc, etc.
This is not a question of right vs left, religious vs secular, it is a question of the law. It is against the law to use Federal funds for abortions. It is against the law to sell body parts for a profit. It is against the law to increase the risk to the mother's health in order to maximize the "harvest" from an aborted child. There is more than enough evidence to initiate an investigation on all three of those fronts. However, this Administration has repeatedly ignored laws it doesn't like so I expect that they will look the other way. Third world country stuff. Cecil the lion, however, they will be all over that. |
My comment was in regards to abortion, not PP, but you are right, it's not strictly a right vs left issue, but because of the religious right, it leans that way. You are right about the law too, abortions are legal and money can be received for fetal tissue. Investigations will determine if any laws have been broken by PP, and if so, then PP should suffer the consequences. I don't think the issue will go away without a thorough investigation.
Often, we (left and right and in the middle), jump to conclusions because they suit or agenda or beliefs. It's usually best to wait for truth, or at least what the investigators or the courts determine what is the truth before passing judgment. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| The real question is whether an investigation is honest and purposeful, or simply an excuse for a circus and the contrived theater that is often occurring and being drawn out today. Both the right and the left have been guilty of the latter, so it's not only coming from one side. |
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MalibuGuru
Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9300
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Nail_Ponder wrote: | | swchandler wrote: | | Reiner NP, what a heart wrenching story designed play off the feelings and mindset of those like yourself and mrgybe. All of the boxes are duly checked for such a result. Of course the idea of dramatizing late term abortions, and idea that Planned Parenthood is blatantly profiteering from despicable procedures is just what you're looking to hear, whether it's true or not. In reality, late term abortions are an insignificant fraction of the abortions performed, but that just doesn't pull the heartstrings, does it? Moreover, to you guys, no abortion procedure is acceptable under any circumstances. Womens' rights don't really matter when it comes down it. Why don't you guys just come out and say it? |
Heart wrenching, non-dramatized outcome witnessed due to my own sister's poor decision is what I witnessed personally, twice. Put on your rose colored glasses, because I'm sure you don't really want to know about the mental and physical repercussions of those decisions.
I wonder at what point that people or doctors become so void of conscience that they condone, practice, partake, and promote what is depicted in that video. I feel sorry for such people, and can only imagine what they are truly capable of, or what else they can be convinced of as rational behavior. |
Abortion is barbaric. I don't understand how anyone could support it. The babies recoil in fear and pain while the abortionist tries to crush its skull. Sick people who do not convey the true costs of aborting babies. Usually if the former mother is shown an MRI or actual body of the baby after it's killed, they are horrified at their act. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | | money can be received for fetal tissue. |
Can you support that? I haven't researched the issue, but EVERY news source I've seen ... 10 to 15 at least ... says nothing of value can be exchanged for fetal tissue and organs cannot be sold on the open market. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| MalibuGuru wrote: | | Abortion is barbaric. I don't understand how anyone could support it. The babies recoil in fear and pain while the abortionist tries to crush its skull. |
Surely that's not before some definable stage of fetal development ... one missed period, one trimester, etc.? . |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14888
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/jimmy-carter-u-s-is-an-oligarchy-with-unlimited-political-bribery-20150731
| Quote: | Former President Jimmy Carter had some harsh words to say about the current state of America's electoral process, calling the country "an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery" resulting in "nominations for president or to elect the president." When asked this week by The Thom Hartmann Program (via The Intercept) about the Supreme Court's April 2014 decision to eliminate limits on campaign donations, Carter said the ruling "violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system."
SIDEBAR
Jimmy Carter Jimmy Carter: The Unchanging of the Guard »
The 39th president also voiced concerns that the limitless flow of campaign cash severely favors those already in office. "The same thing applies to governors and U.S. senators and congress members," Carter said. "So now we've just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election's over."
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Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/jimmy-carter-u-s-is-an-oligarchy-with-unlimited-political-bribery-20150731#ixzz3hVjqpNCM
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14888
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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http://news.yahoo.com/citizens-united-loses-york-ruling-over-donors-181845489--finance.html
Citizens United loses New York ruling over donors
NEW YORK (Reuters) -
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A federal judge on Monday rejected Citizens United's effort to block New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman from demanding that the conservative group disclose more information about its major donors.
U.S. District Judge Sidney Stein in Manhattan refused to impose a preliminary injunction to stop Schneiderman from requiring registered charitable organizations such as Citizens United from disclosing names, addresses and total contributions of big donors before soliciting funds in the state.
Citizens United is a nonprofit that advocates for limited government, free enterprise and strong families. It was also the plaintiff in the landmark 2010 U.S. Supreme Court case that allowed unlimited independent spending by corporations and labor unions in election campaigns.
The group argued that Schneiderman's interpretation of a 2006 state regulation on donor disclosures violated its First Amendment free speech and association rights, invaded the privacy of donors who wished to remain anonymous, and risked a backlash against donors who supported controversial causes. |
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | coboardhead wrote: | | But, this is a very hyped up reaction against an entire organization due to a very small part of their mission. |
Again, you are being disingenuous. By most estimates, PP performs between 30 and 40% of all abortions in the US. Nearly 7 million since Roe v Wade. 7 million!. And this is a very small part of their business? Their deliberate and persistent obfuscation on the numbers speaks volumes. That obfuscation continues in this latest scandal. They should not receive Federal funding unless they completely separate their abortion business from the rest of their services. They should also be investigated for possible breaches of the law in their tissue "harvesting" program. |
This is my full paragraph
| Quote: | | If an individual practitioner is breaking the law...and this has not been proven...then they will and should be penalized. But, this is a very hyped up reaction against an entire organization due to a very small part of their mission. |
Let's misquote what I wrote and then be outraged by it...I am referring to the current "scandal" that is the basis for a call to "defund" planned parenthood. Go ahead and be outraged by abortion.
Reimbursement for medical services, provided by a practitioner is based on a schedule for those services. A provider sees a patient, under the rules developed for that service, and receives payment...simple. It is not the insurer's (the government in this case) right to base payments on other aspects of the practitioner's business. Do you want that door opened?
Most physicians are extremely careful to stay within ethics and laws because of their exposure. To cavalierly suggest that there is wide spread disregard for those ethics and laws is disingenuous. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Cavalier accusations of wrong doing--or assignment to the nether region--based on high dudgeon instead of facts--is the gybe way. |
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