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coachg
Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3551
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 Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| frederick23 wrote: | | Yes Joe, planing around 12 knots (13.9 mph) with current fin. Marginal at times. Just want to make those days rock solid and take advantage of 10 and 11 knot (11.5 - 12.6 mph) days if possible. If I just had coach's 85cm falcon and fin! |
Ok Frederick,
Here is some more motivation to upgrade that board of yours. 
Coachg
https://vimeo.com/124382380 |
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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Never mind U2! We see where you are coming from, and share your irritation.
'No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness' - Aristotle.
And you sir, certainly qualify with your experience, but self admitted fin fetish!   |
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adywind
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Awesome coach! Your video leaves a little doubt that an all compromising freeride board like the XciteRide just can't compete with a specialist one like your Falcon for early planing or speed -good fin or not-it's just obvious 
So I would rather not waste my money on it, leave the fins to the forum cyberbully and his "fin box" and start saving instead for a specialist light wind board be it short and wide slalom/formula or racing long board-wich is the logical next step in the progress of every ambitious windsurfer btw. If ambition or money on the other hand start running low there are other fun and versatile alternatives like Kona One or a WindSup. Not that those are dirt cheap, they aren't, but at least they are not fussy about rigs and fins-huge saving potentials in the long run. Meanwhile focusing on rig and technique efficiency improvements -and there is always a room for that no matter how experienced you are-will reap benefits later regardless which way you go  |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4164
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Frederick23,
I haven't seen it mentioned, but if anyone wants to plane in 10 knots on any board/sail, you have to pump your brains out to get going. More or less, white caps begin to form at 10 knots, so that's a pretty good measure of wind speed. I can plane in a little less than 10 knots (8-9?) on my formula board with an 11.0 and around 10 knots on my 9.2 (70cm fin). But I have to pump to get on plane and can only stay there if wind stays steady. I weigh 170.
A larger or better fin can make a slight difference, but the right size sail, good pumping skills with foot/leg action and bearing off at the correct angle will make much more of a difference than any fin. |
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boardsurfr
Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| adywind wrote: | | Oops they have them in stock ..and for the $$$ it's a steal! |
Every heard the phrase "Too good to be true"? There's a reason the type R you found is so cheap. This was the first edition of this fin. BPF has since replaced it with the Type R [Black Ed.]. The material has changed; chances are it's not just the color. Fin manufacturers sometimes do this after getting feedback on their first run of fins; I remember Makani having to do this with a slalom weed fin I bought. A friend of mine bought a few of the first BPF type RS, and did not care for them at all; they also have been replaced with the "[Black Ed.]". To be clear, I am not saying the fins were bad - just that they did not work for him, his boards, and his sailing style.
So, adywind, you are suggesting to put a slalom fin that has been discontinued by manufacturer into a freeride board, and you seem rather certain that it "will be cooking in the XCite Ride" and that the "Xcite Ride will surely fly with those". My first reaction was that the honorific "son of isobars" might be appropriate, but I think that would be an insult to isobars - most of his suggestions are at least based on his experience. I think "oracle" would fit better.
Fortunately for the OP and anyone else wondering if upgrading a fin may help, there is no need for oracles to predict how Black Project fins work. In addition to good feedback when you contact them with questions, they "encourage riders to Try Before You Buy", either through their dealer network or (if no dealer is close to you) by working directly with you. Other "newer" fin companies may do similar things - for example, Makani Fins can often be tried at windsurfing events like the "Makani Fin Weeks" in Hatteras or the East Coast Windsurfing Festival Cape Cod. |
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rangerider
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| To the OP - yes, try a larger fin. At the end of last season I was getting passed by people planing while I was slogging on my Ultrasonic with a 9.5 for about an hour - super frustrating. Obviously a marginal wind day. I moved my mast base forward about an inch from the midpoint of the track which allowed me to trim the nose down a few degrees and suddenly I was off with much lower planing threshold. It was a revelation for me - sometimes it can be little things like that that you don't realize are holding you back but can make a big difference. Anyway, a bigger fin is not a bad thing to try. |
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adywind
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| boardsurfr wrote: | | adywind wrote: | | Oops they have them in stock ..and for the $$$ it's a steal! |
Every heard the phrase "Too good to be true"? There's a reason the type R you found is so cheap. This was the first edition of this fin. BPF has since replaced it with the Type R [Black Ed.]. The material has changed; chances are it's not just the color. Fin manufacturers sometimes do this after getting feedback on their first run of fins; I remember Makani having to do this with a slalom weed fin I bought. A friend of mine bought a few of the first BPF type RS, and did not care for them at all; they also have been replaced with the "[Black Ed.]". To be clear, I am not saying the fins were bad - just that they did not work for him, his boards, and his sailing style.
So, adywind, you are suggesting to put a slalom fin that has been discontinued by manufacturer into a freeride board, and you seem rather certain that it "will be cooking in the XCite Ride" and that the "Xcite Ride will surely fly with those". My first reaction was that the honorific "son of isobars" might be appropriate, but I think that would be an insult to isobars - most of his suggestions are at least based on his experience. I think "oracle" would fit better.
Fortunately for the OP and anyone else wondering if upgrading a fin may help, there is no need for oracles to predict how Black Project fins work. In addition to good feedback when you contact them with questions, they "encourage riders to Try Before You Buy", either through their dealer network or (if no dealer is close to you) by working directly with you. Other "newer" fin companies may do similar things - for example, Makani Fins can often be tried at windsurfing events like the "Makani Fin Weeks" in Hatteras or the East Coast Windsurfing Festival Cape Cod. |
If what you are saying is true , then you just compromised the image of this company /which you praised so vigorously before/ by suggesting that they are selling crap. I on the other hand believe that this fin will be good enough for the OPs board and better then the original one and will be beneficial for his boards early planing and upwind pointing performance. I stand by it and I'm ready to buy it from him in case he doesn't like it!
Your continuous ridiculing and insulting me also says a ton about your personality and I think it's time for me to speak up against it! |
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U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| GURGLETROUSERS wrote: | Never mind U2! We see where you are coming from, and share your irritation.
'No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness' - Aristotle.
And you sir, certainly qualify with your experience, but self admitted fin fetish! |
GT.. thx, I think. Steve ,that's the fin box on Real winds, thx.
For every theory there will be an opposing one. There is no chance of educating some posters on this fin subject, they already know it all.
Fred: I had a 120L X-Cite ride, it was replaced by a Rocket 115LTD, the difference in performance was amazing by the Tabou, hi performance vs Junior Varsity. If it were so easy to increase the performance by the addition alone of a 150$ fin, it would be more apparent. You would probably gain as much by losing 10pounds, more.
Don't recall seeing a sail specified except a 7.5m ..what is it ? Do you have carbon this that and the other ?
_________________
K4 fins
4Boards....May the fours be with you
http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/ |
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J64TWB
Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1685
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:06 am Post subject: |
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2015 7.5 Retro and 2001 7.5 GTX 2 cam. I assume not much performance difference between the 2 except one is new and maneuverable, the other old, worn and a pain with the cams. No carbon yet. Coming soon.
New light wind board is probably my best bang. Maybe a fin in the meantime. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Frederick, a little bit of a side track, but I'm curious. Did you buy a new Sailworks 75% or 100% carbon SDM mast to match up with your 7.5 Retro? I recently bought a new 2014 7.0 Retro myself, and I'm still in a quandary whether to pick up the 75% Joystick, or to go with my 1995 Windwing (Dynafiber) mast which is somewhere around 40-60% carbon. The Windwing mast is the correct bend curve, but probably not as light and responsive.
In any case, I would like to hear your thoughts about the new Retro and its performance. Regarding the purchase of a higher performance fin, I would suggest giving Bruce Peterson or Dale Cook a call and ask what they would recommend to give you optimum light wind performance matchup with your Retro. Sailworks is a Tectonics dealer, so they might be able to help guide you on your best options. I've bought a couple of Tectonics fins from them in the past, and if they don't have it in stock, they can have Dennis Parton drop ship what you need from the Tectonics factory in Maui. |
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