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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5069
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pour foam and some other things at::

ILLSTREET COMPOSITES, IN S.C.

it depends what you need , how shipping weighs into things.
I have local sources that have some things.

I like to deal with them.

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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9491

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sm,

I apologize for coming off a bit confrontational in response to your first post, but when it comes down to encouraging folks to pursue repairing their own boards, I don't want to give folks the impression that it costs a lot of money to do it. Unless one has a huge repair effort, a quart of epoxy and a pint of hardener will last for years doing a myriad of repair jobs, and even the more expensive West System epoxy products can be considered a relative bargain in the big picture. Much of the other stuff needed is often something that we have in our stockpile of general materials around the house. I think that you would agree, as an experienced and knowledgable guy that does his own general repairs, it pays to do your own work and control the quality of the job.

As far as gloves are concerned, I have to admit to relying on a pair of heavy duly ones for chemical use right now for applying Ipe Oil on Brazilian Tigerwood deckboards for the large deck that I'm building. Getting that stuff off your hands using mineral spirits is no fun at all.
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jb5000



Joined: 06 Jun 2015
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming all of the water is out of it, and it's a partially delaminating board anyway, why not just pick-up a jar of Marine-Tex and apply it to the damage zone? I mean, remove the loose pieces, but leave the cracked bits in place and seal it all up with Marine-Tex. That's an investment of about $20 and a lot less time than doing it all fancy (unless you just want to practice something fancy on a cadaver board before going all-in with a live patient in the future or something). You can wet the Marine-Tex with water to smooth it out before it dries and reduce sanding effort (or not sand at all, depending on how much you care about aesthetics . . . but it would be water-tight, not too much heavier, and probably as strong as before if the added material is ~2mm thick, thicker where it squeezes into the cracks and bonds the edges of the old epoxy together. It can look pretty too if you take the time to sand it smooth and paint it or whatever. It's not like a load-bearing structural part is broken, it's just the nose - it's for impact resistance and water intrusion prevention. And Marine-Tex is strong anyway, as strong as any other epoxy, and it comes in white.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5069
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The truly wonderful thing on this forum is the diversity of opinions, valid or not.

The exact dollar amount is not signifiant any longer , in fact the discussion is pretty well done cause the OP, has chosen to fix his ding. Materials ordered already to accomplish this.

I have no qualms about fixing things or offering recommendations.

I like to do repairs to be sound, and many different methods/materials could be used.

I don't think Saran Wrap and gorilla glue is one.

I would have liked to have known what year and model the board is, to help with a abandon or repair.

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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1212

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on suggestions here, I ordered from Fiberglasssupply.com. That did not go as well as I hoped.

I spend some time deciding what exactly to order based on the shipping quotes that their online ordering system gives. Wasted time - after I placed my order, I got a phone call that shipping would cost a lot more (about $75 instead of $38 or so). Had to drop an item or two from the order to keep the charges reasonable. Not a big deal.

I received the order a week later. Unpacking it, there was another little surprise: the fiberglass was rolled up and wrapped in paper, not in plastic. Considering that it is supposed to attract water and then not work as well, and that it was on the road in this weather for a week, I was a bit surprised. But then, maybe they know better, and this water thing does not matter much.

But the bad surprise came when I tried out the pour foam. It's supposed to be mixed 50:50 by weight. Based on bottle weight and fill levels, I figured the density of the two liquids is similar enough to allow by-volume mixing. Even if the mix is off a bit, it should still polymerize and foam (yes, I studied quite a bit of chemistry and worked in the lab for many years).

I tried twice, once with cups and once using syringes to measure, but absolutely nothing happened. Ordered a scale that's sufficiently accurate (digital, 500 g max, 0.01 g divisions), and tried again. I made sure that the mix was accurate this time (to within +-1%), and mixed very well. Again, absolute nothing happened. Seems that at least one of the chemicals is bad.

I contacted the company by email about this several days ago, but have not received a response. I'll try again next weeks. As it is, I paid about $50 for two quarts of useless toxic chemicals.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5069
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not a customer service rep, for Fiberglass Supply, so how they handle the problems you have will tell the final tale.

All of my materials have, if wrapped, at all in brown paper, AFAIK their have never been any issues with moisture, glass carbon and Kevlar.

Pour Foam , my thought is if NOTHING happened, you have 2 containers of the same, either 2 hardness or 2 resins. Pour foam will react when mixed badly, it will not set correct, but it's not a mixture you need exact.
I use small Dixie cup with a mix line and it works swell.

$75 is very high for shipping, they fact they called says something.

Your experience has made me think that I keep things to myself.
Sorry you have had problems, I know how aggravating things turn into when they go wrong

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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9491

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr,

Both Fiberglass Supply and Fiberglass Hawaii roll fiberglass and other woven cloth materials on a tube, and then they roll everything up in kraft paper. Unless the package is rained on and ultimately soaked, you should be fine. This type of packaging is the general standard in the business, unless you're buying folded fiberglass in a plastic bag at West Marine or your local hardware store. I definitely avoid folded material because it's creased and that makes it more difficult to lay out and work with. I continue to store my excess fiberglass using the same tube and kraft paper it was shipped in, and I've had no problems over time. However, I do store my material in the house in a relatively cool dry place, so it's exposure is reasonably controlled.

As far as the pour foam, seems to me that you might have received two of a single part rather than part A and B components. On the other hand, it could be something that can be traced to the labeling getting mixed up on the containers. Definitely a pain, but I'm sure that Fiberglass Hawaii will make good on the situation and cover the shipping for replacement materials.

Like I pointed out earlier, I prefer to buy epoxy and other chemical solutions locally to save on shipping costs, and to reduce acquisition times. Also, if there's a problem with something, the resolution process is easy and straight forward.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1212

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
All of my materials have, if wrapped, at all in brown paper, AFAIK their have never been any issues with moisture, glass carbon and Kevlar.

I figured that the way the fiberglass was shipped was most likely not a problem - they have been doing this for a while. For storage here, I kept their material and put it into a plastic-covered tube in the basement.

The two pour foam solutions definitely have a different color, so it's not just the same solution. Could have been a mixup with some other chemical, though. Contamination with something that inhibits polymerization could theoretically also be an issue, although I'd think that would be more likely to lead to an incomplete reaction, not to no reaction at all. I used different container types and mixing sticks in the different attempts.

swchandler wrote:
I prefer to buy epoxy and other chemical solutions locally to save on shipping costs, and to reduce acquisition times

I have done that for the epoxy, for the same reasons. But the pour foam costs $120 locally, and $32 (+ about $20 shipping) at fiberglass supply for the same quantity, which seems a bit excessive.

My replacement board will arrive in 8 days, but it's been windy here, and the forecast still looks great. I can sail my smaller board most of the time, but there have been times where I wanted my Skate. There have been an unusual number of freestylers out recently (Mike, Chris, Fred, PK, and of course Marty and Nina; even GFedd was seen yesterday), which really makes me want to do freestyle. I did some on Thursday, but the Skate would be a lot easier for learning new stuff than the 3S 96 (at least until I loose 20 lbs Smile).

So I'm thinking of fixing the board a bit differently than originally planned. That's partly based on suggestions by Pete, and stuff Don from WorldWinds showed me last winter. I'll keep most of the styrofoam, and use a mix of epoxy, microballon filler, and styrofoam balls to rebuild what's needed, and to re-enforce the crack in the styrofoam. The styrofoam balls (Don's trick) keep the weight down. Did a little test (not on the board) to see how much time I have and how it comes out, and it looks good. Will need to see how it sands, but not expecting any issues there.
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 967
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the others, wrapping the glass fabric in brown craft paper is not an issue. As long as it's dry, you're fine.

Regarding pour foam, sounds like what others have suggested is correct, either a bad batch, or the wrong chemicals were shipped.

I have personally only ordered from fiberglasssupply once or twice, mainly because their website / order form was not user friendly at all (this was a couple years ago, maybe things have changed).

I have always had good luck with uscomposites.com. Easy ordering, the supplies have always worked as intended, and the price is good.

By the way, when the pour foam is working correctly, you only get about 20 seconds before the stuff starts kicking off and foaming up.

sm
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1212

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bred2shred wrote:
By the way, when the pour foam is working correctly, you only get about 20 seconds before the stuff starts kicking off and foaming up.

That's one reason why I played around with the foam first - to get a feel for how much time I have. I just got some new foam from a different supplier (through Amazon), and it worked exactly as advertised. Generates a lot of heat, though - 2 ounces were enough to partly melt the thin plastic box (polypropylene) that I used.

So I'm actually glad that the foam did not work. If I had used it, it might have melted the styrofoam around it, without me ever noticing. I did get some melting when I used epoxy + filler. I knew something was wrong when I got a lot of bubbles on the top. I was still surprised when I opened up the bottom and saw the big hole.

It's all filled and laminated now. A couple more steps to do, but the board should be usable again in a couple of days. Lots of fun to do, and I learned a bunch.

Any tips for the final painting? Just any old spray can from the car parts store or home depot, or do certain kinds work better? Do I need to prime?



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