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LHDR
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 528
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 Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| mat-ty wrote: | | LHDR wrote: | | mat-ty, this will be another futile argument but since you are doing hypotheticals, can you imagine for a moment that this was Obama who on a Sunday evening decided to pull out, against the will of the soldiers on the ground, his military advisers, and your Republican idols. Would you really argue that he got our boys out of harms way and there was nothing else he could have done? Or would it have been your usual he is weak and bows to foreign leaders? |
Trump has plenty of support on the ground and elsewhere.....you just choose to focus on the ones that suit your anti-trump agenda. |
Exactly. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 7850
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| LHDR wrote: | | mat-ty wrote: | | LHDR wrote: | | mat-ty, this will be another futile argument but since you are doing hypotheticals, can you imagine for a moment that this was Obama who on a Sunday evening decided to pull out, against the will of the soldiers on the ground, his military advisers, and your Republican idols. Would you really argue that he got our boys out of harms way and there was nothing else he could have done? Or would it have been your usual he is weak and bows to foreign leaders? |
Trump has plenty of support on the ground and elsewhere.....you just choose to focus on the ones that suit your anti-trump agenda. |
Exactly. |
Have you called your Congressman yet???.....Call today and tell them to declare war. |
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vientomas
Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2343
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| mat-ty wrote: | | LHDR wrote: | | mat-ty wrote: | | LHDR wrote: | | mat-ty, this will be another futile argument but since you are doing hypotheticals, can you imagine for a moment that this was Obama who on a Sunday evening decided to pull out, against the will of the soldiers on the ground, his military advisers, and your Republican idols. Would you really argue that he got our boys out of harms way and there was nothing else he could have done? Or would it have been your usual he is weak and bows to foreign leaders? |
Trump has plenty of support on the ground and elsewhere.....you just choose to focus on the ones that suit your anti-trump agenda. |
Exactly. |
Have you called your Congressman yet???.....Call today and tell them to declare war. |
When was the last time Congress declared war? What would the stated grounds for a war with Syria be? Would Russia get involved in any such war? Why or why not?
As to Trump saying you need an ID to buy groceries to make a point...that's minion speak. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| mat-ty wrote: | | mac wrote: | | As I said, sad what passes for thinking on the right. |
Please explain, why congress has not declared war in Syria...Then explain how a 100 special ops guys were going to stop Turkey with 15 thousand troops marching south......
You have no explanation old fool , just hate... |
Well, Matty finally posted one thing that I agree with. But he gets the context wrong. As George Will has said on multiple occasions, Presidents have arrogated to themselves broad military powers under the clause of the Constitution that makes the POTUS commander in chief. Indeed, Congress has stood by weakly--for multiple administrations--while this has gone on.
But changing the current process must be done by a more assertive Congress, not by a reckless POTUS. The US has at least 38 military bases abroad, staffed by over 170,000 troops. Those are funded by Congress and coordinated with military committees in both the House and Senate. Military activity conducted by the President includes approval of drone strikes and missions such as the disaster in Somalia under Clinton and the raid that killed Bin Ladin. It is a fair argument to ask how much of that should be carried out by the President because of the immediacy of the need, and how much should be subject to Congressional oversight and a declaration of war. Some, like the intervention in Libya were disasters. Come, like the intervention in Bosnia were successes that saved many lives.
Matty is also wrong that the only asset here is the presence of 100 special ops guys. Of course Trump can't spell diplomacy, nor organize his diplomatic staff into a tool that does anything except green light corruption.
Matty also ignores the organization effort needed to secure members of ISIS held prisoners by the Kurds. As usual, when you don't have a coherent argument, hurl an insult. |
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MalibuGuru
Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9299
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Kinetic war must be run by the executive branch. However within 30 days Congress must declare war, or end hostilities |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 7850
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| mac wrote: | | mat-ty wrote: | | mac wrote: | | As I said, sad what passes for thinking on the right. |
Please explain, why congress has not declared war in Syria...Then explain how a 100 special ops guys were going to stop Turkey with 15 thousand troops marching south......
You have no explanation old fool , just hate... |
Well, Matty finally posted one thing that I agree with. But he gets the context wrong. As George Will has said on multiple occasions, Presidents have arrogated to themselves broad military powers under the clause of the Constitution that makes the POTUS commander in chief. Indeed, Congress has stood by weakly--for multiple administrations--while this has gone on.
But changing the current process must be done by a more assertive Congress, not by a reckless POTUS. The US has at least 38 military bases abroad, staffed by over 170,000 troops. Those are funded by Congress and coordinated with military committees in both the House and Senate. Military activity conducted by the President includes approval of drone strikes and missions such as the disaster in Somalia under Clinton and the raid that killed Bin Ladin. It is a fair argument to ask how much of that should be carried out by the President because of the immediacy of the need, and how much should be subject to Congressional oversight and a declaration of war. Some, like the intervention in Libya were disasters. Come, like the intervention in Bosnia were successes that saved many lives.
Matty is also wrong that the only asset here is the presence of 100 special ops guys. Of course Trump can't spell diplomacy, nor organize his diplomatic staff into a tool that does anything except green light corruption.
Matty also ignores the organization effort needed to secure members of ISIS held prisoners by the Kurds. As usual, when you don't have a coherent argument, hurl an insult. |
I never said there were ONLY 100 soldiers there, but it has been reported that 100 special forces soldiers were trapped in the middle.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/14/trump-troops-syria-leave-iraq-afghanistan-us |
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vientomas
Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2343
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| MalibuGuru wrote: | | Kinetic war must be run by the executive branch. However within 30 days Congress must declare war, or end hostilities |
Was the Iraq War a "war"? Did the Congress declare war? Did the Iraq war last longer than 30 days. How 'bout Vietnam, same questions.
Do you have any concept of history? Do you ever read books? |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 7850
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| vientomas wrote: | | MalibuGuru wrote: | | Kinetic war must be run by the executive branch. However within 30 days Congress must declare war, or end hostilities |
Was the Iraq War a "war"? Did the Congress declare war? Did the Iraq war last longer than 30 days. How 'bout Vietnam, same questions.
Do you have any concept of history? Do you ever read books? |
Passed by congress you stupid little man..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_2002
Changed by congress after Vietnam
During the Korean and Vietnam wars, the United States found itself involved for many years in situations of intense conflict without a declaration of war. Many members of Congress became concerned with the erosion of congressional authority to decide when the United States should become involved in a war or the use of armed forces that might lead to war. It was prompted by news leaking out that President Nixon conducted secret bombings of Cambodia during the Vietnam War without notifying Congress.
The War Powers Resolution was passed by both the House of Representatives and Senate but was vetoed by President Richard Nixon. By a two-thirds vote in each house, Congress overrode the veto and enacted the joint resolution into law on November 7, 1973. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 7850
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9120
Location: at a computer
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Trump slapped Turkey with steel tariffs for obliterating the Kurds....that oughta show them who's boss.... |
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