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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 3982

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
Mrgybe is not unlike the Chao's or DeVoss's of the world. They are OK with going along with a sociopath as long as it does them some good.

You could teach a course on sanctimony.


I'm just calling you out Mrgybe. You are welcome to defend your approval of the actions of Mr. Trump at anytime. In fact, you stated that you agreed with much of his agenda even though you found his tactics objectionable.

Mr. Trump engaged the ugliest part of our society to find his way into power. He used that power to advance an agenda of tax breaks for the ultra wealthy, dismantle as much of the ACA as he could, and seat conservative justices. Did you not support those actions?

You, and many others, put up with Trump to get your minority goals achieved. If pointing that out is sanctimony...fine.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16047
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the face of Trump having incited a riot—to try to undo an election that he lost by 8 million votes—a riot that killed 5 and could easily have killed dozens of legislators—duck gybe attacks CB and me. He can’t bring himself to condemn Trump, or the white nationalists and religious zealot who were intent on hanging Mike Pence because he wouldn’t help Trump steal an election.

What did Hillary call these folks? Deplorable.

Trump must be prosecuted for this.
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1527

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5? That could have been a automatic machine gun blood bath.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 4967

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
I'm just calling you out Mrgybe......You, and many others, put up with Trump to get your minority goals achieved.

No you aren't. You are impugning my integrity by asserting, unequivocally, that the only reason I "put up" with Trump is that I would benefit personally by achieving my "minority goals". Not only is that insulting and untrue it is laughable from someone who has constantly railed against the illusory assault on minorities like the LGBT community, and has whined relentlessly about how it will hurt him financially if Trump takes his health insurance away.

I approved of his actions to push countries like Germany pay their agreed share of NATO costs. I approved of his calling out China rather than let them steal our technology and steamroller all in front of them as they become the most powerful nation on the planet. I approved of him enforcing the laws of the land, as he swore to do, unlike his predecessor. I approved of his spurring economic growth which resulted in record low unemployment in women and minority groups. I approved of his destruction ISIS after the previous administration had allowed it to grow into a monster which threatened the safety of anyone living in any major city. I approved of his removal of layers of regulation and his support for businesses which undoubtedly resulted in increased investment (and for the dullards, that does not mean I want no regulation). Of course there are things that his Administration did not do well. The long promised alternative to the ACA has never appeared. The response to the pandemic has been confused, and he has to take the blame for that. His treatment of officials that have left his Administration has been appalling. I have said this many times.

We have frequently disagreed on much of this, but I have never cast aspersions on your motives. To suggest that I am solely motivated by self interest is exactly the type of despicable behavior that Trump trades in. You should withdraw that assertion.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2080

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
I approved of his actions to push countries like Germany pay their agreed share of NATO costs. I approved of his calling out China rather than let them steal our technology and steamroller all in front of them as they become the most powerful nation on the planet. I approved of him enforcing the laws of the land, as he swore to do, unlike his predecessor. I approved of his spurring economic growth which resulted in record low unemployment in women and minority groups. I approved of his destruction ISIS after the previous administration had allowed it to grow into a monster which threatened the safety of anyone living in any major city. I approved of his removal of layers of regulation and his support for businesses which undoubtedly resulted in increased investment (and for the dullards, that does not mean I want no regulation).


Mere generalities.

Let's begin with an easy one: Which "laws of the land" did Trump enforce that his predecessor did not?
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1231

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe is any typical Trump fan.

States what he likes and is willing to look the other way on all the rest of the crap. So SAD really!

Kinda like Hitler and Mussolini!


Last edited by wsurfer on Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9987

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe, I think that you give Donald Trump far more credit than he really deserves. Trump was totally unfit for the presidency, and thats been true since day one. Just look at what an embarrassing mess Trump is right now. He's a pathetic loser with absolutely no class.

What you liked was the Trump Administration and their agenda, and most importantly, the kind of support that obsequious Republicans in Congress gave them. Yet if the truth be told, a lot of terrible decisions were made, and it could take decades to recover and regain the kind of real strength and power we need as a nation to again be a respected leader in the world.

With Trump soon to be gone, we have an excellent chance to turn things around, particularly with Democrats controlling the executive and legislative branches of government for the next two years. The real question is whether the Republicans can step beyond being thralls to Trump and the stupid folks that worship him. Are they ready to ditch the blatant obstructionism and work across the aisle? I guess we'll see.


Last edited by swchandler on Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16047
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have to move beyond Trump and deal with Trumpism. I too agree with a few of the things that Trump did--although mr buggy whip has spun them, as expected. But he harnessed the darkest fringe of the "conservatives" to eke out a narrow victory in the electoral college, and then signaled his approval of them and violence. He pandered to their conspiracy theories, whether as a true believer or as a demagogue. We need to address the threat posed by these maniacs, and we need to do it soon. Here's what they are planning to do next:

Quote:
person takes a police riot shield during the storming of the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday. (Eric Lee/Bloomberg News)
By
Craig Timberg and
Drew Harwell
Jan. 9, 2021 at 6:56 a.m. PST
Add to list
Twitter’s extraordinary action against President Trump on Friday night was driven both by the violent rampage of his supporters in Washington and what the company said was a looming “secondary attack” on the U.S. Capitol and state government facilities next weekend — a finding that tracks with the open threats of violence independent researchers have also found across the Web.

Calls for widespread protests on the days leading up to the inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden have been rampant online for weeks. These demonstrations are scheduled to culminate with what organizers have dubbed a “Million Militia March” on Jan. 20 as Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala D. Harris are to be sworn in on the same Capitol grounds that rioters overran on Wednesday.

As with the online chatter ahead of that assault on the Capitol, these calls to action have bristled with violent talk and vows to bring guns to Washington in defiance of the city’s strict weapons laws. Twitter cited some of these posts in its announcement stripping Trump of his account and preventing him from creating new ones in the future. Some event listings are openly discussing delivering “justice” for Ashli Babbitt, a rioter and Air Force veteran who was fatally shot by police inside the Capitol on Wednesday.

AD

“Plans for future armed protests have already begun proliferating on and off-Twitter, including a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021,” Twitter’s announcement said, noting two recent Trump tweets it said were “likely to inspire others to replicate the violent acts that took place on January 6, 2021.”


With reporting today on the arrest and minor charges against the asshole sitting at Pelosi's desk and stealing her mail, we need to do more. We need to use the evidence that they have left on their web sites, and identify at least some of the white nationalist groups as terrorists. We need to consider the laws against conspiracy--put in by Republicans in response to the violence at the 1968 Democratic Convention. But the most effective method is to block their access to money. Those that urged violence need to be sued and force to pay for the damage that they did. That has been the most effective way of dealing with the terrorism of the right.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16047
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
I approved of his destruction ISIS after the previous administration had allowed it to grow into a monster which threatened the safety of anyone living in any major city.


This is just one of the absurd claims of the buggy whip man. Terrorism has not been defeated, and multiple sources have written that ISIS found a safe haven in Syria--thanks to Trump's pandering to Russia and their desires for hegemony in the Middle East. I do think that a competent President could have engaged Russia in a more constructive way than Obama--or Trump--did to have better controls. But Trump did, in Syria and Afghanistan, just what gybe and others railed against Obama for. He announced a troop withdrawal without attaching that to any metrics. Neither Obama nor Trump made any significant inroads against corruption in Afghanistan, which is driving much of the current violence and distrust of the government. Violence has ramped up in the last year, and the Taliban controls half the country. That may well have happened under Clinton had she been elected, and Trump's approach might well be the best way of limiting the damage. But claims of his success on terrorism are utter nonsense.

Specific to ISIS, we have this:

Quote:
One common claim by President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign has been that his administration beat IS, or what’s formally known as the Islamic State terrorist group.

It came up most recently in the vice presidential debate, when Mike Pence boasted, “We destroyed the ISIS caliphate. … You know when President Trump came into office, ISIS had captured an area of the Middle East the size of Pennsylvania. President Trump unleashed the American military, and our armed forces destroyed the ISIS caliphate and took down their leader al-Baghdadi without one American casualty.”

Similar victory claims have been made by Trump himself dating back to October 2017 and include him saying “We’ve done more against ISIS in nine months than the previous administration has done during its whole administration – by far, by far.” Other statements in March 2018 and February 2019 include Trump’s boast “on terrorism, in Iraq and Syria, we’ve taken back almost 100%, in a very short period of time, of the land that they took. And it all took place since our election.”

I am a scholar who tracks the Islamic State group and its affiliates. I pay careful attention to where the group is active and holds territory as part of a University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth project I lead called MappingISIS.com.

Data I have collected – including from official reports issued by the State Department, the Global Anti-ISIS Coalition, the Pentagon, IHS Conflict Monitor, a think tank that provides data on wars, and other think tanks – show that the president’s claims are false: The Trump administration mostly finished the job, but the Obama administration launched the successful campaign against the Islamic State, and did roughly half the work the president is trying to claim credit for.

Using these sources, I have created a map that for the first time delineates territory liberated from the Islamic State under Obama and under Trump. The map makes clear that the Obama administration liberated approximately 50% of ISIS territory before handing the successful war effort off to Trump.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 3982

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrgybe. I have been chastised on this forum by yourself for expressing my disdain for the man. Whenever I have disagreed with this actions, you have dismissed it. You have, on multiple occasions, suggested that this disagreement was based on my self interest. Yet, when I suggest this of you, you cry foul.

I have pointed out, numerous times, that this man is dangerous. Regardless of some of what you find to be successes, he has put our democracy at dangerous risk through his repetition of lies and conspiracy theories.

Where have you called him out on this on this forum? Where did you point out the dangers in his rhetoric? Instead, when I pointed out that the local version of the folks that attacked the capitol were emboldened by this rhetoric, you chastised me as an elitist.

You are correct that I have no right to question your integrity. I can only question what you have presented on this forum. Too many of us allowed this man to risk the future of our country to feed his ego because our political views, on many issues, aligned with his actions. It is time to recognize what we allowed and take some responsibility for it.
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