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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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 Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Getting upwind on a small board just takes time. While you can be a part of the race, there's no way that you can be competitive, but you can still have fun.
Not many races anymore, but if you are in a location where there are races a few times a year, you may want to look for an old longboard that can be competitive. You just have to find someone willing to give one up. However, before you buy, run it by the forum to see if the board is competitive/raceable and for the right price. |
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joethewindsufa
Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Montréal
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whitevan01
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 607
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Learn to sail upwind with max vmg (velocity made good).Many really good windsurfers are not all that adept at going upwind fast as they rarely sail upwind. |
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justall
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 442
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Tech: Yep, If I get a few more under my belt, I'll look at, and come back with boards. Yeah, the great thing about this race was that there were a folks on all types of boards ... so one could find peer to race, no matter what you had.
Joethe...: Wow ... $60 ... shows how resale works on these things. I have on older, longer berky, though without centerboard.
Whitevan: Sounds good. Yeah, I think given my equipment I was doing OK. I went with a big fin, dug-in the rail and contorted when it felt needed, and tried to take advantage of puffs. Was really trying to balance going a little less upwind, for speed, and digging in but giving up speed.
I'll play around with all this as soon as I can ... hopefully will get an opportunity this weekend. |
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konajoe
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: |
I see no need for a spitting contest
If you know what you are doing (from experience), a one tack leg to the windward mark is best, |
It's not much of a spitting contest, since every source available suggests avoiding the corners, in most cases.
So justall, CoachG's suggestion about tactics course at a local sailing club is a good one. One of the best windsurfing classes in the world right now is Kona. Life's too short not to get involved with that fleet.
You may be interested in watching coverage of some old America's Cup races. Some of them have great commentary and graphics.
Every time I sail with my buddies, I'm doing friendly racing. It's how we get better. Fortunately, many of them have had formal racing training.
On a short board, you'll be sailing pretty low angles upwind. An interesting case is an imaginary board that can only be sailed 90 deg to the wind. If you have oscillating wind shifts, and manage to tack in phase, you can get to a windward mark. If you don't take advantage of the shifts, you can't.
Now, for your viewing pleasure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnMyl4ZBo5Y and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8Ue4msUTgg
It's never to early to start to learn this stuff....or too late....
I still can't believe Techno900 tried to play the 'race' card. |
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robwylde46
Joined: 06 Nov 2015
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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You'll have to excuse konajoe. He's a famous/longtime shortboard/formula hater. He's so use to those beginner boards that he forgets the faster the boat, the bigger the detriment short tacking is.
**apologies to all other kona drivers. That zinger is meant for konajoe only. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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konajoe said: | Quote: | | I still can't believe Techno900 tried to play the 'race' card |
Bold statement from someone that has no clue about my windsurfing/racing history.
And let's remember that we are here to offer suggestions to Justall. For a novice on a short or longboard, he will no doubt fall well behind by adding a handful of extra tacks, especially if the better sailors are good at hitting the lay line on the first tack. And if the racers he is following are tacking 3-5 times, then he should be doing the same. We are talking about a guy doing his best to keep up with the other sailors, or at least watching/following them to see how they are getting around the course. It's not America's Cup match racing, where tactics are million miles away from what is needed in a local windsurfing regatta.
In your videos, the first says stay in the middle. Fine, but the sample shows the leading boat starting to port (not a great idea in a crowd) to the favored side of the course (wind and start line not exactly at 90 degrees favoring the port side), while the other boat is not pointing nearly as high. Both boats tack when the wind shifts, still favoring the leading boat. The difference in the two boats has nothing to do with staying in the center of the course, the leading boat is spending the majority of the time with a better angle to the mark. If the losing boat had been smart, he would have started on port too and followed the better sailor.
The second video is all about wind shifts and clean air, and if you noticed, some suggested one tack, even over shooting the lay line to avoid two more extra tacks to avoid getting jammed up at the mark. And by the way, I have raced side by side (at least at the start) with the majority of the racers in the second video. |
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konajoe
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| robwylde46 wrote: | You'll have to excuse konajoe. He's a famous/longtime shortboard/formula hater. He's so use to those beginner boards that he forgets the faster the boat, the bigger the detriment short tacking is.
**apologies to all other kona drivers. That zinger is meant for konajoe only. |
Great! Someone made up a new username just to make a personal attack.....
Last edited by konajoe on Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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konajoe
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: |
The second video is all about wind shifts and clean air, and if you noticed, some suggested one tack, even over shooting the lay line to avoid two more extra tacks to avoid getting jammed up at the mark. |
There's nowhere in that video that they refer to single tacking a windward mark. The lay lines run from the corners to the mark. The guy making the comment about avoiding double tacking is right no matter where you tack on the lay line, or how you got there. So what he's telling folks is, if you tack on the lay line 200 yds or 100 yds from the flag, or wherever, make sure you account for folks who may tack on top of you or sail over you, and give you dirty air. If you have dirty air, you won't be able to stay on the lay line. Heck, even that formula specific video tells you in print to avoid the corners (point 5 at the end).
In the first video, note the angle of the wind direction indicators shifting. The angle of the 2 boats relative to the wind stays constant.
I didn't write these articles or make these videos. Cite some articles that state that single tacking is a good strategy in most cases. Find sources that say that banging the corners is typically a good thing to do. |
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justall
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 442
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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KJ: Yeah, i've been thinking about the Konas, or something equivalent. We'll see. Got it on the imaginary 90 degree-only board, that makes sense. Btw ... Consider it an honor that someone would take the time to create a new account to get a little, humorous, dig in .. Kinda funny.
Tech900: yep ... Just looking to get better and undeerstand what others are doing. Definitely were extra tacks in my first try. Also, yep, novice "racer", though not novice sailor in general. Got it on the favored start/lines.
Thanks. |
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