Quick survey - how much batten rotation do you have?

[manuel]

Batten pocket wear
I never really worried about batten rotation but as part of my perfect-rig quest, I used it as a rigging clue. A friend of mine warned me about keeping my battens away from the mast on Gaastra sails, I have had two or three battens poke out of their pockets (neilpryde and gaastra) from rubbing on the mast.

Rotation by design
Neilpryde sails seem to have an incredible amount of rotation having sometimes the batten sticking out past the mast in a low wind setting. Sometimes a sail will have the bottom batten crossing over the mast more than the one above the boom, sometimes the reverse. On the other end, Ezzy's have no batten rotation and lots of built-in profile.

Sail feel
One thing about having lots of rotation I have noticed is that it seems not to be as precise as when there's more rotation. Basically there's extra material/inertia around the mast and it can slow transitions (tacks, backwind moves) and decrease reactivity (laydown moves, overall quickness/light feel) unless one pulls more outhaul.

Shorter battens to reduce wear
Rotation is one thing but is it needed at all? I understand the main point is to get strong bottom end out of a sail without having to switch one size up, valid for heavier riders and also light riders looking to use smaller sizes. However, couldn't the luff material remain slightly loose without having the battens crossing over? Ezzy introduced a partial batten with the Taka 2, so did Gaastra with their 2016 Manic.

How much rotation do you use with your sails first at the downhaul and then once the outhaul is set? I'd like to know this along with sail manufacturer, model and size. I'm looking forward to learning about the difference between 3/4/5 batten sails. And finally how tight do your battens feel next to the mast, is it a tight snappy type of rotation and a looser one?

Example:

1. Gaastra IQ 4-batten + Fiberspar Tidal Wave mast
1.a downhauled + no outhaul
- batten above the boom 1/2 way across the mast
- batten below boom 2/3 way across the mast
1.b downhauled & outhauled
- batten above the boom doesn't touch
- batten below the boom touches 1/3
- high wind, all battens clear

[isobars]

I yank the downhaul snug, outhaul 'til moderate hand pressure pushes the belly of the sail most of the way to the boom, downhaul 'til the leech looks right, and go sailing. I don't even look at the resulting relationship between my battens and my mast unless I encounter a rotation problem. I occasionally loosen or tighten my outhaul on the water to tweak my average power level, so trying to get it "perfect" when rigging is fruitless. I MIGHT snug my batten tension strap after a season of use IF I see puckers in the batten sleeves.

That's how Northwave designs their B&J/wave/freeride sails to be tuned, and I have zero reason to second guess them. I'm not competing for any huge trophies or big bucks, so a percent of efficiency here and there machts no nichts to me. I just want great handling and wind range, and I have it.

My sail rotation in jibes is invisible, seamless, silky, unnoticeable, silent, smooth, instantaneous ... whatever you wish to call it. Barring major operator error, I throw the rig away on port, and it comes back to me on starboard, all ready to sail away on the new broad reach. I neither know nor care when it rotated. That has applied to all sizes and models of NWs I've owned ... something like 60 or 70 of them. (If a sail "went" or felt like that shoulder-wrenching POP I've seen and felt in many race or slalom sails when jibed, I'd be sailing some other model or brand the next day.)

My latest quiver sometimes needs a slight rotational yank on the boom when waterstarting, but that's because I specified extra seam shaping in my sail foot for greater low-wind power. It's a known tradeoff.

Once or twice on an extremely windy and gusty day, I may induce a big, sudden, noisy foil reversal by careless or unintended direction reversal, made even more abrupt if my outhaul is loosened at the time because the wind dropped a bit. That's part of "sailing in several directions at once" outside my control envelope, and has little to do with batten tension or adjustment.

YMMV, KISS, and all that.

[swchandler]

When you talk about batten rotation, are you really talking about the amount of downhaul? While we all have outhaul to throttle and feather the power of the sail, the range of proper downhaul assures smooth batten rotation around the mast. A lot of batten pocket wear in the luff area of the sail suggests too little downhaul. Ideally, you want slippery rotation with whatever outhaul position you choose in the sail's range. Of course, everything can be complicated by having an "off" bend curve in the mast, but if you have a suitable mast, rotation is automatic, and little, if any, abrasive wear should be present.

The thing that I watch for and concentrate on is how the battens pull away from the mast as downhaul increases. Watching this carefully, you can see the sail designer's intent. In the sail's ideal downhaul range, smooth rotation is a given. I've found that if you are consistently starved for power, you are rigged too small, and that playing the minimum downhaul game is a questionable strategy. While I'm more focused on 5 or more batten sails, I'm thinking that 3 or 4 batten sails are driven by the same model.

[jingebritsen]

cam sails are more stable than RAF's which are more stable than fully battened which are stable than non battened sails.

when i rig a sail i want planing power, stability, and easy transitions.

Rotating Asymmetrical Foils are what i like the best. battens have to touch the mast in order for an RAF to function best. batten tips trailing the mast from #'s 3 and up are good when lit.

i tend to seek a better mast selection when the lower battens pull away from the mast in the battens adjacent to the boom.

i trend to agree with chandler about the dysfunction of going to afar from recommended tensions for either low end or high end conditions. 2-3 cm d/h adjustments for 6.8 and smaller. 2-5 cm for the larger stuff.

reality: you want an RAF to deliver its best performance? deal with the wear simply by repairs as needed.

[techno900]

It seems like a few folks here are looking for more power in their sail, so they slack the downhaul and or the outhaul to get a deeper pocket (outside of the designer's specified range).

If you feel compelled to do this you should be on a bigger sail. I much prefer a larger sail with more stability and range than a smaller one with a little more low end grunt, but no stability or range (especially in gusty conditions).

I will make outhaul adjustments at times, but never downhaul.

If you are on your largest sail and still not planing, I get the desire to try and find more power, but the ultimate solution is a new, larger sail.

And my batten rotation is exactly the way the sail designer wanted.

[isobars]

[boardsurfr]

[manuel]

I meant to add an example of what I was looking for to clarify my first post.

Example:
1. Gaastra Manic 5-batten + Ezzy mast
1.a downhauled + no outhaul
- batten above boom 2/3 way across the mast
- batten below boom 1/2 way across the mast
1.b downhauled & outhauled
- no battens touch the mast (light wind can have 1/3 batten above boom touching)
- batten above the boom is the last one to touch the mast
- batten below boom never touches

2. Gaastra IQ 4-batten + Fiberspar Tidal Wave mast
2.a downhauled + no outhaul
- batten above the boom 1/2 way across the mast
- batten below boom 2/3 way across the mast
2.b downhauled & outhauled
- batten above the boom doesn't touch
- batten below the boom touches 1/3
- high wind, all battens clear

I did run into the batten resting on the mast with lots of tension during rigging (actually more when derigging). I apply pressure to the sail to help the battens slide across when releasing outhaul.

I'm completely fine with some batten rotation so long as it doesn't cause premature wear.

[isobars]

[westender]

I've never contemplated batten rotation in my life. Never even heard of it till now. Can't blame a guy for wanting to have a discussion.