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tm00
Joined: 21 Jul 2000
Posts: 250
Location: Lake Champlain - NY
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 Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:38 am Post subject: Board fit to sailing style |
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I got the chance to demo a 2015 and a 2016 model FW boards (96/86 ltr - same brand). They may have planned a little earlier than the 2011/12 (100/80 ltr) FW boards I own but I also found that they seemed a lot "bouncier" and didn't like going upwind (stock fin). Still had a great time sailing but I came away with the impression that someone with a different sailing style would have a completely different reaction.
Have others found that certain boards/brands don't match their own style? |
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U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Do you think a different fin would go upwind better?
THATS a reflection on the Fanatic fin thread.
Well I would hope that the difference is better than worse, goes without saying. Companies change the path direction .
I had a 87 n 97 from the same series , they were entirely different, the 87 acted like a wave, where the 97 a FSW
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jingebritsen
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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lots of brands have been offering short and wide designs. they end up being more technically challenging in that one needs to match the most perfect sail and fin choices to the wind at hand. upwind performance diminishing is just one aspect. "bouncy" and / or more demanding of rider inputs are others.
longer hulls may be a bit harder to turn, but if one is constantly fiddling with getting the techy crap just right.... who gives a fugg about an extra 10% better turning?
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| tm00 wrote: | I got the chance to demo a 2015 and a 2016 model FW boards (96/86 ltr - same brand). They may have planned a little earlier than the 2011/12 (100/80 ltr) FW boards I own but I also found that they seemed a lot "bouncier" and didn't like going upwind (stock fin). Still had a great time sailing but I came away with the impression that someone with a different sailing style would have a completely different reaction.
Have others found that certain boards/brands don't match their own style? |
The short answer: yes.
But as usual, there's much more to the picture.
It's not clear to me whether "their own style" means the rider's style or the board's advertised style. Each presents a different challenge.
Regarding the rider's style, some riders are an across-the-board fit or misfit with some brands, generally speaking. Most marques favor some general, "proprietary" blend of speed, early planing, maneuvering, ride quality, and some other performance factors (if any single board or brand was tops in every such factor, every other brand would be out of business). Brands offer different types of boards (FS, FSW, W, GW, FR, etc.) to broaden the brand's market, but their corporate or shaper bias still shows through the paint, so to speak. It wouldn't surprise me if someone painted a wide variety of boards solid white and let a highly perceptive and highly experienced rider like Lee D/Zirtaeb ride them, he might be able to tell what brand some are, especially if all were wave boards, or all FSW, etc. He might even be able to spot brands among a mix of models, and even some individual models. I suspect that even I could spot some brands or models, if they were from an era in which I sailed them.
Examples: JP, in general, has long favored crispness and speed over comfort for the masses, according to major dealers and team riders I've talked to. Naish boards read my mind. The old Cascades and Baileys and Watsons of Gorge fame felt like extensions of the rider's feet on the first reach. My Rogue Wave stands out among the last 50 boards I've owned, including >15 wave boards of the same displacement and general vintage. All my Maui Project wave boards, from 68 to 96 liters, sail much alike one another and very differently from most other boards I've sailed. Each size, however, is optimized for its own set of external variables such as wind quality, wind range, rider size, etc.
As for the latter, as boards get shorter/wider, they tend to bounce more, have lower top speeds, pinch less efficiently, and if there's a W in their label, be intended for smoother surfaces/less chop than they were a decade ago. And because they're intended for smoother water, they come with tiny fins that are in no hurry to get upwind.
Anecdotally -- but with a LOT of company -- I just don't care for modern short/wide boards. Most of them are not intended or designed to excel at the style of sailing I prefer combined with the sailing venues in my neighborhood. Their blend of pros and cons compared to those of their predecessors are simply less well suited to my priorities. |
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akrausz
Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 158
Location: FL
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| For me, JP's have improved. I love my most recent Excite Ride even though I didn't like the first one for the "too lively" reasons mentioned. Naish was almost muted enough for me. RRD FSW and Exocet S-Cross are great for absorbing chop and going upwind. |
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tm00
Joined: 21 Jul 2000
Posts: 250
Location: Lake Champlain - NY
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:07 am Post subject: |
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I think a different fin may have helped with going up wind but all and all I was disappointed.
When I tried the boards I was thinking that the "newer" model boards would be improvements over my 5 yr old boards. They were not. I think this was related to my style and what I want out of the board.
Last edited by tm00 on Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| tm00 wrote: | | When I tried the boards I was thinking that the "newer" model boards would be improvements over my 5 yr old boards. They we not. I think this was related to my style and what I want out of the board. |
Exactly. Improvements without compromises are fairly easily attainable with relatively new toys, as exemplified with kites a few years ago. But WSing, especially with its prior knowledge from surfing, has less room for improving ALL performance factors with no tradeoffs. Shortwides ... stubbies ... are different from their predecessors, but that does not mean better in every regard. We expect manufacturers to tell us a new product is "better in all regards" (I think the technical term for that PR bullshit is "PR Bullshit"), but I'm still disappointed in the dealer who told me the older designs -- just 3 or 4 years old at the time -- don't work any more. Now THAT'S bullshit. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4162
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:44 am Post subject: |
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iso said: | Quote: | | As for the latter, as boards get shorter/wider, they tend to bounce more, have lower top speeds |
Bouncy - YES. Lower top speed - depends on the driver.
Start at 1:45.
http://www.pwaworldtour.com/index.php?id=920
Not starting a debate, just that slow or fast is an issue of control for most of us. The shorter wider boards (especially with flat bottoms) are harder to control, so slower for many, but can be very fast in expert hands. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| My comments were derived from Boards Magazine's long, thorough, head-to-head analysis of the stubbie vs traditional shapes. |
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wynsurfer
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 940
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I finally broke down and bought a 75L board for those days when it is real windy and rough. It's an older 75L Open Ocean 8' x 21" with the mast track further forwards than newer designs. It reminds me of an old 85L 1990 Naish custom glass board shaped by Stevie B. that I bought new when I lived on Maui in 1990, I must have sailed that board exclusively, hundreds of times for a period of at least ten years until I had to throw it out.
Every short / wide board that I have used since has been a big disappointment to sail in high winds. Noticeable improvements in lower wind speeds though.
First time sailing the O.O. was the first time in 15 years that I could sail in high winds effortlessly, in total control. I could not believe how easy it was to sail.
Maybe it's me and has something to do with having gotten so used to sailing on only one board for so long. My 85L JP FSW is only good in flat water in winds above 25kts. Any rough chop makes it sail like as, isobars stated " like a bucking bronco with a hornet up it's butt". 
Thanks isobars! |
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